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  • Surprised there hasn't been a discussion started about this, though it did drop rather suddenly. Rooster Teeth released a short about Adam yesterday going into his history with the White Fang. You can see the short here. We actually get to see some decent Sienna Khan action here as well to sort of make up for her anti-climactic appearance in Volume 5. Blake also shows up briefly, though the timeline here isn't as clear. It appears to be in Forever Fall, but some time later he is made head of the Vale branch, which would seem to fix that part before Blake's departure.

    Incidentally, the part where Ghira is still involved with the White Fang and they are being ambushed is probably the closest we've got to seeing real mistreatment of the Faunus depicted.

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    • This short made me wish we had had an Adam vs Sienna fight in V5

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    • It made me wish Sienna wasn't dead.

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    • It made me wish I could care about Adam now

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    • MetallicArcher wrote:
      This short made me wish we had had an Adam vs Sienna fight in V5

      That would have been cool. But unfortunately, CRWBY made Sienna die to single hit, even though her aura hadn't been depleted.

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    • They set it up later so that aura needs to be active in order to stop hits.  Sienna wasn't expecting Adam to assassinate her like that.  It was a complete surprise to her and to the audience.

      Her whip weapon was fascinating.

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    • Cyrania de Bergerac wrote:
      They set it up later so that aura needs to be active in order to stop hits.  Sienna wasn't expecting Adam to assassinate her like that.  It was a complete surprise to her and to the audience.

      Her whip weapon was fascinating.

      Complete bullshit. Watch the episode for yourself. 

      https://youtu.be/x0c_qab80NE?t=17m21s

      Sienna is first stabbed 2 minutes and 45 seconds after Hazel walks in and 30 seconds after her gaurds refuse her orders. 

      How long does it take to activate your aura? For a trained fighter like her it should be instantaneous. 

      But that is irrelevant, because we know Adam's weapon can cut through aura. What doesn't make sense is why Sienna's remaining aura didn't heal her. 

      P.S. most of the discussion happens on discord now. The forums are pretty dead. 

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    • Adam’s sword does not cut through aura and that has been confirmed many times already.

      I just don’t think Sienna believed that Adam would just outright kill her with no mercy

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    • Nikoli the rebel wrote:

      P.S. most of the discussion happens on discord now. The forums are pretty dead. 

      I mean, I assumed it was just that there is often a dry spell between Volumes.

      Anyway, one thing I wanted to talk about is Blake's brief interaction with Adam. They're pretty vague in their conversation and so we assume Blake is talking about something Adam did, but are we to assume this was the first time Adam had killed someone on a mission with Blake? She already seemed to be aware of his history, though even there it was not as if she was only talking about something Adam had done. Honestly, doesn't even make sense why he would feel a need to apologize to Blake if it was just something he did either.

      What also isn't clear is the timeframe. In Volume 3 it was implied Cinder recruited Adam right after the mission in the Black Trailer and after that point it appears he is running the White Fang side of things in Vale. So Sienna would seemingly have appointed Adam as head of the Vale branch before the Black Trailer. My initial impression was that Blake's interaction with Adam is right before the Black Trailer, but now it would seem more as if this was a while before she left the White Fang. How long before is another question and whether this was meant to be their first confrontation over it.

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    • Adam Kills Human and Sienna Approves ——> Adam Appointed Head of Vale White Fang ——> Blake and Adam Conversation ——> Black Trailer ——> Cinder confronts Adam for the first time

      That’s pretty much the timeline. Between the points however there is a long time some much longer than the others.

      Between being appointed and Adam’s conversation with Blake it must be months since he’s leading missions and humans are getting hurt and killed which is what Blake states.

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    • They did say that the White Fang changed leadership 4 or 5 years before the series started. That’s plenty of time for Adam to rise through the ranks and be appointed the head of the Vale branch, especially since he apparently started killing while Ghora was still in charge and Sienna encouraged it.

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    • Nico-v11 wrote:
      Adam Kills Human and Sienna Approves ——> Adam Appointed Head of Vale White Fang ——> Blake and Adam Conversation ——> Black Trailer ——> Cinder confronts Adam for the first time

      ........................You're horribly wrong. None of the events go back and forth, each one happens after the previous one. Made perfectly clear when you look at Adam's outfit, if it wasn't obvious enough (Ex: When talking to Blake, he doesn't have the white thing over his red rose. When made head of Vale branch, he does).

      1) Adam kills humans and Sienna approves, Ghira still leader.

      2) Blake and Adam conversation, Sienna is already WF Leader. Since Blake doesn't look 12-14 there it's already been years since the WF turned violent and thus she's been with Adam for quite some time.

      3) Attack on an SDC Facility that kinda has nothing to do with the rest of the short beyond showing us that Adam was stupid crazy at the time.

      4) Adam made Head of Vale Branch.

      5) Black Trailer.

      The real question marks are how much time passes between time skips. But it's clear that the confrontation between Blake and Adam happened quite some time before the Black Trailer, and also before he became the head of the Vale branch.

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    • Whoops I somehow misremembered my bad. Anyway the short the shows the events in chronological order

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    • Nikoli the rebel wrote:

      1. But that is irrelevant, because we know Adam's weapon can cut through aura.

      2. What doesn't make sense is why Sienna's remaining aura didn't heal her.  

      1. No, it can't. In regards to Adam cutting off Yang's arm, Miles blatantly stated that "it's not a sword thing". Here's the transcript of what he and Kerry said about Adam cutting Yang's arm off:

      Miles: The Aura is, y'know it's like, we establish in the [...] tournament fights that, like... Yeah, every hit can drop it and some hits can break it. It just so happens that Adam's attack was so badass that, in one hit, it managed to break it and do damage all at once, it was super powerful.

      Kerry: Yang had also been fighting off-screen.

      Miles: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that girl, that girl had been through some things! It's not necessarily a sword thing, more just like "Oh, he's strong! Oh, he's a scary man!"

      It was the fact that Yang's Aura wasn't at 100% added with the fact that Adam hit her with an incredibly powerful attack that did more damage than her remaining Aura could handle.

      2. Because Aura can only heal minor wounds on its own and is too slow to save someone from a fatal wound unless you have someone like Jaune amplify their Aura like he did for Weiss. Without Jaune, Weiss' Aura would have been unable to heal her stab wound in time.

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    • SomeoneYouUsedToKnow wrote:

      ........................You're horribly wrong. None of the events go back and forth, each one happens after the previous one. Made perfectly clear when you look at Adam's outfit, if it wasn't obvious enough (Ex: When talking to Blake, he doesn't have the white thing over his red rose. When made head of Vale branch, he does).

      1) Adam kills humans and Sienna approves, Ghira still leader.

      2) Blake and Adam conversation, Sienna is already WF Leader. Since Blake doesn't look 12-14 there it's already been years since the WF turned violent and thus she's been with Adam for quite some time.

      3) Attack on an SDC Facility that kinda has nothing to do with the rest of the short beyond showing us that Adam was stupid crazy at the time.

      4) Adam made Head of Vale Branch.

      5) Black Trailer.

      The real question marks are how much time passes between time skips. But it's clear that the confrontation between Blake and Adam happened quite some time before the Black Trailer, and also before he became the head of the Vale branch.

      I would say the most plausible scenario is that Blake was 15 or so about the time the conversation happened. She could have been 14, but no younger than that. In other words, probably a year at least before the Black Trailer. What also isn't clear is what Blake was doing in that time. She wasn't in the attack on the SDC, apparently, but we presume she was still with the White Fang. Did Blake stay in Vale or did she go with Adam and just wasn't involved in the mission or perhaps not that part of the mission?

      With that timeline there is also the question of why the conversation happened at that point. Blake was supposedly close to Adam for a while already and he already had a reputation. I have to presume it was not the first time someone died when she was on a mission with Adam. My only thought is that there was something particularly noteworthy about it and that means either it was not easily written off as self-defense, involved higher casualties, or Blake was somehow partially responsible.

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    • ChishioKunrin wrote:
      Nikoli the rebel wrote:

      1. But that is irrelevant, because we know Adam's weapon can cut through aura.

      1. No, it can't.

      In regards to Adam cutting off Yang's arm............

      I'm 400% sure that was a joke.

      @DA: The time skips are vague in how much time has passed. Blake confronting Adam happened in Forever Fall, but for all we know the mission Adam, Sienna and Ilia took on the SDC Facility could've happened months after that in Atlas.

      As for why Blake confronted him then and not sooner.....maybe that's the point she couldn't take it anymore and decided to confront him about it. Once or twice, alright, but the scene implied it had already happened multiple times by then, and there's a point where people would start rising their eyebrows in response.

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    • It would match what she talked about with Yang after it seemed that Yang had broke Mercury's leg.

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    • It seems like a really odd transition to scene's without Blake... like why wouldn't she be there on that mission if it were chronological? You have the 2 leaders directly over her and Ilia there , so unless she was acting leader/defensive support elsewhere it seems very odd.

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    • She may have gone on missions with Adam at the time, but the short was only showing missions that she wasn't on because those were the times he was most able to step out of line and kill people because she wasn't there to witness it and see for herself that it was not an accident.

      V6 adam short 00056
      After all... does this look like an accident to you?
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    • Well, thing is in her talk with Yang she stated: "At first they were accidents, then it was self-defense. Before long, even I began to think he was right." If she was 15 or so then it would be a pretty quick progression from accidents, to self-defense, to thinking he was right (whatever that means), and then just complete abandonment because it was finally too much.

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    • Well, the move to from accidents to self-defense seemed to have happened while Ghira was still in charge judging by the character short.  After Ghira left and Blake decided to stay, Adam's killings went from self-defense to him being right.  So it wasn't that speedy of a transition and may have even started with a genuine accident that happened under Ghira (though that would have been a good thing to include in the short if there was that moment).  The rest of the downward spiral just happened more quickly since Ghira was no longer around to put it into check.

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    • Cyrania de Bergerac wrote:
      Well, the move to from accidents to self-defense seemed to have happened while Ghira was still in charge judging by the character short.  After Ghira left and Blake decided to stay, Adam's killings went from self-defense to him being right.  So it wasn't that speedy of a transition and may have even started with a genuine accident that happened under Ghira (though that would have been a good thing to include in the short if there was that moment).  The rest of the downward spiral just happened more quickly since Ghira was no longer around to put it into check.

      Well, no it didn't seem that way to me. Blake was still talking of "accidents" and Adam was defending it as an "accident" so we didn't really see Blake showing she believed he was right. He started with self-defense or you could say it was an accident in that he went a bit too far in defending Ghira, but I am talking about how Blake perceived his actions. The clip is her understanding the defense as "accidents" rather than any kind of justification such as "self-defense" or being "right" in some respect.

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    • I think what she meant by "right" was probably just "telling the truth". Poor phrasing on the writers' part, trying not to make her dialogue too clunky.

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    • ChishioKunrin wrote:
      I think what she meant by "right" was probably just "telling the truth". Poor phrasing on the writers' part, trying not to make her dialogue too clunky.

      Given how easy it would have been to have her say something else to communicate that, I'm not sure if it is poor writing. Here are just a few alternative phrasings I whipped up:

      "At first they were accidents, then it was self-defense. Eventually, I believed him."

      "At first they were accidents, then it was self-defense. Before long, I didn't even question his actions."

      "At first they were accidents, then it was self-defense. Before long, even I was convinced that was the case."

      It just doesn't make much sense as written, unless they were trying to convey that she started seeing his actions as justified or necessary without stating it outright.

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    • Well... there is an old theory that she strayed a little into the dark side, which was sparked from how she took Roman hostage almost like it was second nature. The way she held Gambol Shroud to his throat, she had the second edge and the spike positioned to slit his throat while also aiming the gun at the White Fang members. She snapped right into that quickly and easily, almost as if she had done it before.

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    • Blake has always been a character plagued with guilt, especially one for staying in the White Fang and dismissing her parents. It wouldn’t be a shocker if she simply regrets being on raids against the Schnee company or doing other illegal things like that

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    • ChishioKunrin wrote:
      Well... there is an old theory that she strayed a little into the dark side, which was sparked from how she took Roman hostage almost like it was second nature. The way she held Gambol Shroud to his throat, she had the second edge and the spike positioned to slit his throat while also aiming the gun at the White Fang members. She snapped right into that quickly and easily, almost as if she had done it before.

      I know since I am one who advocated that. Nothing they have done has specifically refuted that and I daresay those earlier interactions in Volumes 1 and 2 would be weird if they canonically establish she was only engaged in property damage and theft. My question is if this scene with Blake was a year or two before she left and if she was already familiar with Adam's tendencies, perhaps the reason she is particularly upset and he felt the need to apologize to her is because this scene is after she somehow was made culpable in it.

      Perhaps there was a part of a plan Blake implemented and that action directly caused the death of one or more people, presumably not good people so as to assuage her conscience. Honestly, the idea of Adam sort of sucking Blake into his own lethal tendencies makes their relationship that much more interesting and the potential implications even greater. I really want a scene where Adam "gets back" at Blake by revealing she was "just like him" to the other members of RWBY. Maybe that is all just still too dark for them.

      Honestly, it is the only way I think I can get over Blake being revealed as such a spoiled brat in the most recent volumes. The idea of an idealistic youth who abandoned her doting well-off parents to fight a cause becoming slowly more corrupted and vicious only to later depart in fear of what she might be allowing herself to become if she stayed then wallowing in shame and guilt afterwards is far more interesting than her just being a spoiled goodie two-shoes who couldn't confront her mistakes.

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    • The Devil's Advocate WP wrote:
      ChishioKunrin wrote:
      Well... there is an old theory that she strayed a little into the dark side, which was sparked from how she took Roman hostage almost like it was second nature. The way she held Gambol Shroud to his throat, she had the second edge and the spike positioned to slit his throat while also aiming the gun at the White Fang members. She snapped right into that quickly and easily, almost as if she had done it before.
      I know since I am one who advocated that. Nothing they have done has specifically refuted that and I daresay those earlier interactions in Volumes 1 and 2 would be weird if they canonically establish she was only engaged in property damage and theft. My question is if this scene with Blake was a year or two before she left and if she was already familiar with Adam's tendencies, perhaps the reason she is particularly upset and he felt the need to apologize to her is because this scene is after she somehow was made culpable in it.

      Perhaps there was a part of a plan Blake implemented and that action directly caused the death of one or more people, presumably not good people so as to assuage her conscience. Honestly, the idea of Adam sort of sucking Blake into his own lethal tendencies makes their relationship that much more interesting and the potential implications even greater. I really want a scene where Adam "gets back" at Blake by revealing she was "just like him" to the other members of RWBY. Maybe that is all just still too dark for them.

      Honestly, it is the only way I think I can get over Blake being revealed as such a spoiled brat in the most recent volumes. The idea of an idealistic youth who abandoned her doting well-off parents to fight a cause becoming slowly more corrupted and vicious only to later depart in fear of what she might be allowing herself to become if she stayed then wallowing in shame and guilt afterwards is far more interesting than her just being a spoiled goodie two-shoes who couldn't confront her mistakes.

      Wow, if she actually did have some blood on her hands, that would definitely show how far she'd fallen from her parents' teachings in the pursuit of her ideals, and explain why she was always running for the first three volumes.  And wouldn't Ghira be shocked, for that would refute what he said in "A Much Needed Talk" about how Blake didn't fall into the darkness like most of the White Fang after he left.  But, as you did, it might be too dark for RT, as they seem reluctant to paint the main heroes in that sort of light.  Maybe we'll find out for sure later on, especially if Blake went on any missions in Atlas, hoboy she won't be the only one chagrined at returning to Atlas.

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    • Alhazad2003 wrote:

      Wow, if she actually did have some blood on her hands, that would definitely show how far she'd fallen from her parents' teachings in the pursuit of her ideals, and explain why she was always running for the first three volumes.  And wouldn't Ghira be shocked, for that would refute what he said in "A Much Needed Talk" about how Blake didn't fall into the darkness like most of the White Fang after he left.  But, as you did, it might be too dark for RT, as they seem reluctant to paint the main heroes in that sort of light.  Maybe we'll find out for sure later on, especially if Blake went on any missions in Atlas, hoboy she won't be the only one chagrined at returning to Atlas.

      Well, it comes down to the fact that if Blake really is just that goodie goodie, then her whole characterization in the first two Volumes is out of whack. Specifically, everything in her interactions with Roman suggested she was in some part tempted to kill him. Not only that, she is literally named for a lethal plant and is designed to resemble a ninja, who were often assassins. Weiss also indicates people have been killed by the White Fang, yet Blake didn't talk about that with Sun in Volume 1 and only mentioned it in relation to Adam much later to Yang when talking about how his behavior caused her to turn away. Every last bit of that makes it seem as if there is a part of Blake's involvement with the White Fang being held back. Do think this kind of history coming up is the only way they can develop Blake's character in a compelling manner.

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    • This small more or less 7 minute " episode " was more entertaining than the whole volume 3-4-5 in my opinion.

      Especially better than last episodes of volume 5.

      I'm still amazed by the fact that so many potentially beautiful fight ended up being a complete disappointment.

      Not to mention the whole " Jaune can heal mortal wounds ", that makes me see Pyrrha's death like a producer's attempt to show us that they are badass and can kill off main characters just for the sake of it.

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    • I mean, it's not like Jaune was there to heal her wounds before she got dusted. Plus as he said, his semblance only boosts the other persons aura, not does the healing itself. Pyrrha's aura was broken during the fight against Cinder which meant she wouldn't have had any aura for Jaune to boost, so his semblance would still be useless.

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    • Still remain the fact that there is no coherence.

      Jaune's semblance was litterally tailored to allow him to save Weiss life.

      Add other things like Ozpin's reincarnation.

      These things show that the producer can and will save character's lives.

      So, why killing off a favourite one, Pyrrha?

      They wanted to prove the point that the show was not all laugh and comedy, and they did it in the worsth way.

      Pyrrha's death was pointless and avoidable. A deliberate attempt to show us that they are badass and can kill off main characters just for the sake of it.



      I would have forgiven them if they were coherent and in the end of Volume 5 killed off also Weiss, instead of creating the " oh so convenient Jaune's semblance " that saved the day.

      They don't fool me. Pyrrah had to die for no particular reason save for showing " how mature and dark the show is, even main characters can die ".

      What a joke.

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    • I mean...you can hate it all you want but she was literally created to die in that moment. It wasn't some random thing they decided to do, her death was planned before episode one even aired.

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    • Masterteo89 wrote:

      1. Jaune's semblance was litterally tailored to allow him to save Weiss life.

      2. Add other things like Ozpin's reincarnation.

      3. So, why killing off a favourite one, Pyrrha?

      They wanted to prove the point that the show was not all laugh and comedy, and they did it in the worsth way.

      Pyrrha's death was pointless and avoidable. A deliberate attempt to show us that they are badass and can kill off main characters just for the sake of it.

      4. instead of creating the " oh so convenient Jaune's semblance " that saved the day.

      1. Actually, Jaune's Semblance was tailored for him to be a Tank and Support. They gave him knight's shield, and his role throughout the show has been to give orders and block attacks since he's not as trained or practiced in fighting as the others. As far as combat is concerned, the role Jaune was made to fill was Tank and Support. Monty had once said that he liked to think of things in terms of an RPG when it came to how the characters deal with fights together.

      2. Ozpin's reincarnation was planned from the beginning, and it's a way to have one character who's been in this war against Salem for a long, long time instead of just having generations of people who don't know her as well. They're telling this story of a war that has gone on for thousands of years, between two people who have others fight in their war for them. (And yes, it has been thousands of years. Glynda said the Maidens have existed for thousands of years, and now we know Ozpin gave them those powers.)

      3. Because it was a way to get Jaune, Nora, and Ren involved in the war against Salem. Why Pyrrha in particular? Because she's a better fighter than the others, considering her tournament record, and has a Semblance that lets her manipulate 99% of people's weapons. If she had been there for the fight against Tyrian, she could've just pinned him to a wall by his weapons, forcing him to either abandon his weapons or give up.

      She's Achilles. What better way to make a character allude to Achilles than to build them to be practically untouchable.

      Her death was also a way to get Ruby to use her silver eye powers.

      4. Jaune's Semblance was planned from the beginning, to be honest. Remember all the way back in Volume 1, in Forever Fall Part 2? Cardin punched Jaune, there was a bright light, Cardin dropped Jaune and acted like his hand hurt, and Jaune's bruises were gone. In the directors' commentary, Monty says "First sign of a Semblance" when this happens. That was Jaune's Semblance in action.

      It boosted his Aura, which healed his bruises and possibly made his Aura armor feel more solid, which would be why Cardin's hand was hurting.

      Unfortunately, an animation error led to Jaune's bruises coming back, which caused the details about his Semblance to go right over our heads.

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    • He never could have helped Pyrrha anyways, had he been fighting, he wouldn't have called Ruby, and no-one would have stopped Cinder from killing him when Pyrrha was down, assuming he wasn't killed first as the easier target in the first place.

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    • Masterteo89 wrote:
      Still remain the fact that there is no coherence.

      Jaune's semblance was litterally tailored to allow him to save Weiss life.

      Add other things like Ozpin's reincarnation.

      These things show that the producer can and will save character's lives.

      So, why killing off a favourite one, Pyrrha?

      They wanted to prove the point that the show was not all laugh and comedy, and they did it in the worsth way.

      Pyrrha's death was pointless and avoidable. A deliberate attempt to show us that they are badass and can kill off main characters just for the sake of it.



      I would have forgiven them if they were coherent and in the end of Volume 5 killed off also Weiss, instead of creating the " oh so convenient Jaune's semblance " that saved the day.

      They don't fool me. Pyrrah had to die for no particular reason save for showing " how mature and dark the show is, even main characters can die ".

      What a joke.

      Well, no, she needed to die because it needed to be a real defeat in addition to all the other reasons given. It also was needed to serve as motivation for the characters to move on to the next battle. Also, Weiss is one of the few characters who just plain can't die, at least not until we get to the very end. She is a titular character. Plus, her being saved is partly about Jaune as he was unable to save Pyrrha, but being able to save Weiss is a boost to his morale. Killing off another girl he fawned over so close to the last one is the kind of thing that would take his character down a much darker path than they obviously intend.

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    • Anyone think it's kinda moot watching how Adam's mask fell at the end of this short and seeing him return at the start of Volume 6 with it on as if he never discarded it?

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    • TheArashi wrote:
      Anyone think it's kinda moot watching how Adam's mask fell at the end of this short and seeing him return at the start of Volume 6 with it on as if he never discarded it?

      I'm pretty sure that part of the short takes place sometime after Adam went back to the White Fang HQ, but before the Argus Limited got attacked by Grimm. I don't think Blake was hallucinating when she saw Adam on the train. He was wearing a hood, with no sign of his mask. He's still hiding his face with a hood, but he may have ditched the mask.

      Also, if he's on the train, then JNR is screwed.

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    • ChishioKunrin wrote: ...

      Also, if he's on the train, then JNR is screwed.

      I wouldn't be so sure... JNR weren't very "buddy buddy" with Blake, so it's unlikely he'd attack them as part of his vendetta with her, and tbh JNR's fighting style might be hard for him to counter.

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    • 73.Anon.52 wrote:

      ChishioKunrin wrote: ...

      Also, if he's on the train, then JNR is screwed.

      I wouldn't be so sure... JNR weren't very "buddy buddy" with Blake, so it's unlikely he'd attack them as part of his vendetta with her, and tbh JNR's fighting style might be hard for him to counter.

      I don't think Adam is on a mental state where he is interested, least willing, in levels of friendship.


      From his POV it might be all the same.

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    • JNR at the very least care about Blake as a comrade, classmate, and friend possibly (RWBY and JNPR hungout together pretty often) so yeah they’re fair game for Adam.

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    • You both missed my point, unless he has slasher movie BS stealth and immortality, he isn't going to draw attention to himself by killing every hobo she passes on the street... that would lead to capture or Blake finding out he was there. JNR has almost NEVER interacted with her on screen, and Blake reads a lot and is anti-social, so it isn't likely that changes off-screen... it'd be like trying to kill the cast of "friends" and starting with that extra from episode 300... by the time he got to someone important he'd lose the element of surprise and likely be stopped.

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    • Or he could just start working up the ladder, or go for whoever is easier to get to at the time

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    • and that would be RWBY... he has no idea who Oscar is, even with the off chance he knows Qrow is pro.... that's 6 targets on foot(or at least slower moving than the lead train cars with only 5 of them being possible threats, whereas that train has 3 potential targets that are threats, and hundreds of witnesses. If on the otherhand he merely follows JNR they'll lead him to a potential ambush site for Blake.

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    • A FANDOM user
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