Talk:Downfall/@comment-28171999-20180115002411/@comment-34633327-20180115205107

Now, to be fair, Starlight and Discord (The Chaos Spirit anon, thats who I am talking about) did show genuine remorse over their final acts as villains. The problem is that their crimes, in any other world than MLP, would be considered Moral Event Horizons.

Discord is often compared to Bill Cipher of Gravity Falls, and while Discord did get redeemed, Bill is considered a Complete Monster, as his actions are treated more seriously. But it isn't just that they are from MLP, as there are other series that don't mind trying to forgive some people who did some shitty things.

Dragon Ball Z had the iconic Vegeta forgiven for his actions, not forgotten, but his actions were pretty dickish, what with him and Nappa killing most of the Z Warriors and he later slaughtering a Namekian village just to get their Dragon Ball, then joining up with Babidi to fight Goku again without holding back. Granted he did basically kill himself to try and stop Buu and redeem himself, but still, pretty dick moves.

Yugioh had Maximillion Pegasus steal the souls of Solomon Moto, and Seto and Mokuba Kaiba, along with trying to murder Yugi, and in the original manga, succeed in making Bandit Keith kill himself, yet he became one of Yugi and later Jaden's bigger allies. It's telling that in the manga he actually dies whereas the anime, he lives and gets redeemed, meaning he could very well have been redeemed had he lived in the manga.

Minerva of Fairy Tail not only physically tortured Lucy for her own amusement, she later attempted to kill both Kagura and Erza in a tournament after they had just reconciled, joined a Dark Guild just so she could try and kill Erza again, and after being forcibly made a demon, kept on trying to kill Erza. But she not only gets redeemed and aids in beating the real villains, she ends up becoming a nicer person out of it and one of the main casts Strongest Allies.

And as you pointed out Sentry, Darth Vader may have done alot of good as Anakin Skywalker during the Clone Wars, but once he became Vader to try and save Padme, he not only let the assault on the Jedi, he perosonally slaughtered countless younglings, force choked Padme, the very thing he wanted to avoid, and led a reign of Galactic Tyranny for nearly twenty years. But, he suddenly realized he wasn't really evil, saved his son, and tossed the Emperor down a shaft then died, earning Redemption in Death.

Any character can be redeemed, its the actions they did on screen though that makes or breaks the redemption. Informed actions are just that, informed, and we can't judge a character based solely on what is told. If someone told you I blew up a building, but never showed evidence, and I never confirmed the story, then there isn't any weight behind the claim.

Ilia's redemption is actually fairly standard an anime redemption, as outside of stabbing Sun and going along with the plan to kill Ghira and Kali, she hadn't done too big an act to avoid redemption. Later betraying them and stopping Corsac, then joining Blake's group and a spoilery act later, cemented the fact that yes, she did redeem herself.

Raven's most heinous action on screen is saying she wants to kill Qrow, an act that is called into question considering she never followed through with it, and even told Vernal it was just a plot to gain their trust. Outside of that, her other heinous acts such as leading Bandits in pillaging aren't really shown. The most shown was Shion Village, but we have no idea how much was the Branwen tribe, and how much was Nucks leading the Grimm. Raven's actions aren't actually that large to deny a redemption. Had we seen her kill some one or if she truly did kill Spring for the power and Spring didn't just die another way, then its a bit blurrier. But as of now, her actions don't deny a redemption.