Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-25266931-20161128203912/@comment-5430952-20161129102913

Arkantos95 wrote: I just don't understand how people are making the assumption that Raven feels guilty about anything. She's displayed nothing but indifference or nonchalance in regard to everything but the Relic thus far, hasn't made a single move to help or reconnect with her daughter and/or her lover other than a self-described one-time incident, and 'leads a fucking tribe of pillaging murderers without any goddamned remorse. ' Seirously, she isn't a good person, she does not operate on the same moral compass as most people. Her only guiding factor is the safety of her tribe, and everyone else can (both literally and metaphorically) burn for all she cares.

And Al, where the fuck are you getting the idea that she views her life before leading the tribe as better? If that's the case, then why hasn't she just left like Qrow did? It's not like he's been hunted down since then, so what the hell's stopping her? Has it even occured to you that the whole "survival of the fittest" bit is actually what she freaking believes and not just some doctrine that got shoved down her throat? It's not an assumption, we're simply trying to give Raven the benefit of the doubt rather than dismiss her as nothing more than a Complete Monster, which you seem to strongly believe. I mean we learned a lot about her during her discourse with Qrow; she has an inflated opinion of herself, tends to spout off BS, gets testy whenever she is challenged, and is prone to flee when someone hits too close to home. This is more indicative of a Smug Snake, which I daresay fits Raven much better than the Complete Monster label you seem to have slapped onto her. And Smug Snakes are brought up short in time, and are often the last ones to see it coming.

As for why she would consider her life outside the tribe as better than within, think about it; she never had to worry about starving at Beacon, where to find clean water, clean clothes or shelter (which were all provided by the academy). She didn't have to worry about sickness or disease (there were hospitals in Vale and an academy infirmary if necessary). And no one tortured her for showing weakness (something she clearly wrestled with for years, since I can see the tribe as being completely intolerant of it, a band that only values strength has little room for anything else).

The change was even more pronounced in Vale, where she saw people walking in broad daylight without fear, enjoying life and being at peace with one another. They could make of their lives what they wished, and didn't need to worry about lynched at any moment for there were systems in place to round up such "troublemakers." Big difference from the tribe who were never happy unless they were stealing or murdering. And emotions were rewarded with brutal punishments for they were seen as a sign of weakness. The tribe created nothing of value, nothing that would last the test of time, they lived only for the moment, not caring about what the future may hold. Over time she was able to tell the difference, and knew a society like Vale could not be created if people cared only about themselves, like her "family."

Now there's no way she could exist in such an environment for so long and not (as you're claiming) be changed in some way. She would have to change in order to survive in Beacon, otherwise she would not have lasted. If she remained the cocksure marauder of her youth, the academy would not have tolerated it, they would push back. Teachers would reprimand her regularly, upperclassmen might be tempted to teach her some "humility," while her peers avoided her like the plague, giving her labels like "Raven the Barbarian," "Jungle Girl," "Savage," and whatnot. Even her team would've been hard-pressed to tolerate her if she acted like she did in "Family." In time, I'm certain Ozpin called Raven to his office and gave her an eloquent speech that could be summarized in five words: shape up or ship out.  There was no third option, if she defied him and remained her old self she would've doubtlessly been expelled. And had she caused chaos in town she would've been labeled a menace to society, locked up in maximum security for the rest of her life, or possibly executed. Then Yang would never be born, and there would be no Team RWBY. No show either.

So she (begrudguingly) began mending her ways and learning the social norms of the academy: how to act on campus, how to respond to teachers, how to interact with her peers. In time people stopped avoiding her and began accepting her, which could've taken all four years considering how heavily indoctrinated she was before coming to Beacon. Though she definitely made progress and actually became happier, evidenced by the Team STRQ picture, I doubt that smile is fake. And she even warmed up to Tai, and I daresay was only truly capable of showing weakness around him, since he never chided her for doing so. I can even see him saying she looked so much prettier when she smiled, something she rarely did amongst her miserable and somber tribespeople who scorned human emotions.

Now I'm not certain if Tai and Raven ever married, though it would definitely not surprise me. Be the perfect example of how "human" Raven had become since her first day at Beacon. Now again, if she had remained her old self, none of this would be possible. If she did not change,m she would soon perish, those are the rules that govern all life on Remnant, and Raven and her ilk are no exceptions.

As for why she didn't (or couldn't) leave the tribe completely, I'm thinking it was when she was pregnant with Yang. She became weaker than at any other point of her life, something she once despised with a passion, and I could see her having nightmares of her tribe hunting her down, killing Tai before her very eyes, ripping the unborn Yang out of her womb and killing her too, right before they ended her for her "betrayal." In time Tai would catch on that all was not well, and Raven would tearfully admit her nightmares. Tai tried to reassure her, saying even if they did attack their home he would defend her and their child, no one was going to destroy their happiness. Though that had the opposite effect on Raven, as she didn't want to see her "family" destroyed, and knew if they faced off against the Beacon faculty they would be slaughtered. Thus she concluded she could not stay with Tai, but was not callous enough to simply abort Yang because of her "mistakes." Thus she gave birth to her daughter, then quietly disappeared, returning to her tribe so they'd never know she'd all but completely forsaken their "ideals."

Of course she could never let them know how she lived in Beacon, so she either fabricated a story about "pitiful" Beacon was or said nothing, anything to keep her clan from finding out the truth. And in time she became their leader, and thus could keep them in Anima, where they couldn't harm Tai and Yang and where Ozpin and his ilk couldn't harm them. I'm sure she saw it as a win-win situation, but in reality she had only taken the easy way out, not trusting Tai to defend her and not wanting to see her tribe destroyed, even though she knew how destructive and unfulfilling their way of life actually was. Thus she buried all her emotions and became the marauder she was before, though it was agonizing to revert to her old ways, but she feared she had no choice lest the tribe discover her deception.

And for eighteen long years she's kept the facade up, putting on a strong face to her acolytes. Though once Yang (or possibly her and Tai) reach Anima, the facade will soon come to an end. I imagine the older tribespeople will see the resemblance between Yang and Raven and start asking some tough questions, questions Raven doesn't want to answer, for she fears the tribe will revolt if they knew how she'd "sinned" against them. The mask she's worn for almost two decades will start to crack, and it'll become harder to hide the truth from them then. And when they get through her "family" and confront her, the time of Raven's judgment will finally come.

So in short, we're not assuming anything, we just believe there may be more to Raven than you do, simple as that.