Thread:GreyStark/@comment-28288412-20170506220152/@comment-28288412-20170508074006

GreyStark wrote: 1. Do you want a none Christian source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#Historical_reliability_of_the_Gospels let me turn the tables. Can you find a source from that time that says that Jesus wasn't real?

2. People were just as intelligent back then as they were now.

3. And people were claiming to have seen Jesus three days after he died and the centre of the early church was in Jerusalem until the city and the temple was destroyed by the Romans

4. (Jesus predicted this btw)

5. and guess who the leader of the church there was. James, the half brother (or maybe step brother) of Jesus.

6. So could I make up stuff about a guy, say that he came back from the dead, and convince his brother and about 500 people that they saw him.

7. The point I'm making is that his body, which was being guarded by Roman soldiers vanished.

8. Yes. People died for their religion all the time. But the disciples were eyewitnesses. They knew the man they preached about. And if it was all made up they'd be the ones that made it up. Now do you honestly think they would all chose to died in extremely painful ways for something that they knew to be a lie?

9. Fatima is close enough to Lisbon for the observatory there to have pick something up.

10. They went there to ridicule the believers. Some of them were soldiers sent to stop people going there. And there's also the people who were miles away who claimed to have seen it. Including atheists. Seriously, the mass hallucinations thing always falls apart because of this.

11. 40,000-70,000 people all misremembering the exact same detail. Really you honestly think that's the truth? Edit. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mM-LpZtkFxM Here's an eyewitness statement saying that it started before they looked at it 1. How about, to my awareness, the lack of reference to Jesus outside Christian or Jewish sources from the time period he existed? Killed by the Romans but no solid reference by any of them of his death, nobody seemed to know anything about Jesus who wasn't already christian or jewish. Surely if Jesus was real and doing this kind of shit we'd get a solid mention from, say, a Roman source of the time. Not a century or two later, during Jesus' life or soon after his death.

2. They weren't. Claiming they were is equivocal to claiming we are just as stupid now as we were back then. The intellect and general knowledge and understanding of a variety of concepts shows just how average human intellect has improved over the ages.

3. All his followers I'm guessing.

4. Let's establish the guy's existence before his "predictions".

5. I don't recall Jesus ever having siblings. The fact you can't remember whether it was half (presumably related to Mary) or step (Mary got with someone else in that case who had a kid) also makes it questionable.

6. An incredibly devout to the point of stupidity follower possibly could yeah. If they impersonated the guy to keep the religion going.

7. If the thing was incredibly guarded locked behind the wax and two ton rock, how and why did they check inside if they were confident nobody would get into it?

8. Probably yeah. That or admit they were lying proving the religion they were spreading to be fictional and die for nothing anyway. They'd probably still be executed if they said he wasn't real anyway so may as well stick to their guns.

9. Not necessarily. If it wasn't actually the sun itself but rather a different visual stemming from it.

10. But the peer pressure coming from the ones who attended spreading it around influencing recollection isn't knocked by that.

11. Oh, so that was something everybody reported being the case? Really? Considering some claim to have seen other religious shit and flashes and not the sun moving? No, Grey, not everybody reported that exact same detail as many claim to have seen completely different shit or nothing at all.