Talk:Cinder Fall/@comment-35585801-20180514171634/@comment-25936766-20180515011646

I'll just focus on the original points in the OP, much easier to read through. Though this still feels way too long for a comment thread....

1) "Comercial Suicide" is a huge and absurd hyperbole. Making a 3D model of decent quality isn't cheap nor quick, sure, but they're not some overly-expensive asset worth millions either. It's not really like they will go bankrupt just for killing a character.

Now, I do agree that it is a total monetary waste sometimes. Cinder's current model was at least used a fair amount since Vol.4, so it's not a waste there. But for characters like Sienna and Tukson, who only have literally a few minutes of screentime, it's an absolute waste of money, or at least it seems that way in the foreseeable future.

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2) "Narrative Suicide"....nah. First, Salem is not a bad Big Bad. Big Bads are the bosses, the leaders of the bad guys, and leaders do not need to be personally involved to do a good job, especially if they have henchmen who (to their understanding) can already get things done by themselves.

And, of course, in some cases things will be easier and more convenient for the Big Bad if they don't do it themselves. Especially if they're like Salem and prefer to work from the shadows instead of in public.

Now, as for her League of Evil, it's true that Cinder was tough and all.....but she's not really any better than the others, whether in personality or in results. Hazel killed Mistralian Huntsmen offscreen and spent 95% of the Battle of Haven kicking everyone's asses without stopping, Watts made the virus seen in Vol.3, Tyrian......I got nothing.

Meanwhile, leaving aside E&M, Cinder has no real achievements after Vol.3. In fact, after Vol.3 she became a weakling who couldn't even speak, and after getting better she changes a perfect, "no-risks, full-rewards" plan into the worst finale in this show all because of a vengeful stick up her ass.

Result: Villains get their asses kicked (off-screen, but still), they end up with no Relics, Lionheart is no longer useful, they lose Adam and thus their WF support, and Haven is intact. All thanks to Cinder.

"Legitimate narrative threat" is something Cinder was only in Vol.3. Before that the show was pure and nobody died, while after that Cinder's been so incompetent that literally the villains would've had a greater chance of winning if she wasn't around.

And now that she isn't around, what M&K should do is up the other villains's games to make them more legitimate threats.

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3) "Development", on that we agree. But before she gets any character development, she should get some serious character exploration. We only know "I WANT POWER" and "I WANT TO BE FEARED", any other part of her is completely unknown. We literally know more about her sidekicks than we know about her. It's been 5 years and we still don't know shit. It's just stupid.

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TL;DR: Point 1: You're exagerating, Point 2: Cinder was never that good, Point 3: Agreed.