Board Thread:Episode Discussion/@comment-4141313-20190119003858/@comment-38271940-20190127132836

BlizzardDragon wrote: There's a difference between saying someone is strong, and showing someone is strong. Its why Show Don't Tell is practically a law in proper writing. Even then, the only ones who really hyped up Adam were those close to him. Of the two, Blake is someone who both fought alongside him, used to believe him, and was afraid of him, making it reasonable she'd put him on a pedestal/be afraid of him. Whereas Sienna saw him as someone equal to herself, enough to consider sharing leadership of the Fang with him.

Sienna: Adam - if you continue along this path, you might just find yourself standing beside me at my throne.

And since Sienna often worked alongside him like Blake did, she'd naturally consider him strong if he brought in results.

Cinder didn't say he was strong, she said he was skilled. There is in fact a difference. Its why the Weak but Skilled trope exists. In fact, the reasoning Cinder gave for why she picked Adam was because he was a skilled leader.

Cinder: You're the one we need. Your skill, your ability to lead those beneath you. You're an exceptionally valuable man, Adam.

This is even confirmed by Sienna later on.

Sienna: You are a symbol for many in our organization, but that doesn't make you infallible.

Adam: I will admit, Sienna, you were right about my popularity.

Cinder needed soldiers for her inevitable attack on Beacon, and rather than hire untrustworthy and subpar thugs, she sought Adam out so the White Fang would be her foot soldiers.

As for why Blake and Sun didn't give chase, it wasn't because he was strong, but because he was indeed dangerous. Blake told Sun that following Adam into the woods was suicide since Adam could easily lay in wait and take them by surprise.

Sun: But he's getting away! We could take him!

Blake: No, we can't. He wants to lure us away so he can pick us off. We need to protect the school and the people here.

Blake said he was basically employing a standard tactic, Divide and Conquer.

And again, to put him on the same level as Qrow would put him on a similar level to Tyrian, and Tyrian has shown the capability of taking on four students simultaneously and only lost his stinger due to getting distracted by his sadistic glee. Adam meanwhile struggles to take on two students.

Not only did Adam's strength come across as Told not Shown, it was from people who reasonably overhype him.

Seriously, this is getting repetitive, as it seems no matter what argument any of us use, you immediately come up with a counterargument that is just as easily disproven, or overhype Adam yourself. Its fine to like Adam if you want too, despite how many of us dislike him, but its not alright to make him out to be something he isn't. Let me start by saying this: If you don't want to argue, say you aren't going to continue this conversation. I'm not a toxic fanboy, I get that sometimes we agree to disagree. But your last line - 'but it's not alright to make him out to be something he isn't.' You are aware that my arguments are intended to show that you're guilty of that, not me, right? Now with that said, your arguments are just as easily disproven, and where I 'overhype' him I believe you 'underhype' him.

Now, I recognize the clear canon that Adam has been beaten by two huntresses-in-training. But whereas you think it's a testament to his lack of strength, I believe it's due to poor writing. Hence the core beginning of my initial argument, him fighting without using the remaining half of his weapon. Actually, most of my arguments reference that the issue is in the writing.

In terms of Cinder, you're arguing semantics. And if you're sick of easy-to-disprove arguments, then I'm sure you understand that's a weak one. I could define skill, combine it with his experience, and make an easy-to-sum-up talented fighter. I'll go into detail upon request. On a side note, your quote along with his later quote in the referenced episode illustrates why him 'seeing red' and not using his rifle makes even less sense. Just a fun observation when I was fact-checking!

As for Sun and Blake, you're saying that he's using tactics... combine that with innate skill, even as you reference it, and it sounds like he's quite a strong opponent, to me.

Now, as for the Tyrian comparison, I'm sure you're not deliberately ignoring the fact that tyrian was fighting a tired team that had two volumes less of progression then Blake or... well, I'll say one volume for Yang. ;) Instead, I'll yet again attribute it to my root point of 'bad writing.' Adam shouldn't have lost this fight. It doesn't make sense for him to because of how he's been built up. He can outclass Blake any day of the week, as we saw, but starts getting rammed up the ass when Yang gets involved. Now, let's ignore all the inconsistencies - The semblance that cut a droid in two only scraped an arm, the power-level progression, his character motivation - let me end my argument (at least in this response) with this.

Either you're right, and Adam was written up and referenced as an extremely powerful character that was overhyped and fanboyed - or I'm right, and Adam was a truly strong fighter that was cut down early for no reason but to progress the overall plot. And in either situation, isn't that bad writing?

I loved this season - I love this show. But I do genuinely believe that there are some MASSIVE weaknesses in writing to some characters, Adam being just one of them. If you don't want to continue this - don't. If you do - do. Hell, if you want to make a final statement and say that you don't want to keep going after, that's fine. I'll let it end without a final word, if you want. (though I'll still respond to other users.) I've done my best to keep my arguments mature and light-hearted. For quite a bit of this, you seem to have done the same. If we don't reach a conclusive end, let's at least maintain that theme throughout.