Thread:SpiritedDreaming/@comment-4141313-20191018025135/@comment-4141313-20191018050726

All I'm doing at this point is offering rebuttals. You guys give me a response, I offer a counterpoint over what I interpret from your response, and it goes back and forth.

I keep offering them because a lot of the responses don't make sense to me.


 * "If I didn't die imemdiately I would, without question, take up his fight for him. Because it's what he would have wanted." I don't know Phantomlink personally nor do I know their brother, but this response doesn't make sense to me because the entire point of the conversation was to act as if you were Hazel, not act as if you were you. If I were me in Hazel's situation, I'd have sooner ate my gun than anything else. But I'm not me. The entire point was to see things from his perspective.


 * "I'd go for the one controlling the monsters that killed my brother. If they didn't exist in the first place, the other guy wouldn't have needed to convince my brother to fight. I go for the root of a problem, not a symptom." This answer doesn't make sense either since the point of this discussion was catharsis. Except taking this option means catharsis is impossible, since Salem would likely kill Hazel if he even tried to. He can't get catharsis if he dies first.

I also keep debating because so far the story is only being taken at face value rather than waiting for more information. Again, according to the commentary, ''we don't know the whole story. ''Maybe for all we know Salem promised to revive Gretchen for Hazel, maybe Gretchen was a Proto-Pyrrha or Proto-Ruby and like Jaune and Yang did with Oz, Hazel thinks Oz deliberately endangered Gretchen.
 * "In the meantime, he's literally killing innocent kids who had nothing to do with any of this and are just sort of caught up in the crossfire. Kind of doesn't excuse his actions in my books. What you're suggesting is that Hazel just keeps on killing all those poor kids Ozpin gets shunted into every time he reincarnates, and ignores Salem. Because Ozpin's cycle is not going to stop until Salem is stopped, which means Hazel will never refocus his sights on Salem." This response meanwhile is putting words in my mouth. Nowhere did I say what Hazel was doing was okay, nor did I say he should keep doing it. I said I can sympathize and empathize with him, and his motivation ultimately makes him feel human. And even then, this argument is wrong.
 * He has never killed a child in the series, and the closest he's come to is Nora and Oscar. He electrocuted Ren, but didn't kill him, so its possible he'd have just as likely just knocked Nora out. And yes, you can survive being electrocuted without having Nora's semblance.
 * And technically speaking, Ozpin doesn't have to fully die for Hazel to stop. Remember, Hazel wants answers. He's just gonna keep killing Ozpin until he gets one. But Ozpin never gives it. Instead he tries to frame it as Gretchen making the choice and that it absolves him of responsibility, despite the implication he not only recruited her, but that he did so when she wasn't ready, especially since she died in a training mission. He wants to know why Ozpin keeps trying. And we know why: Ozpin keeps trying because he sees hope. He thinks there is a light at the end of the tunnel, that his efforts aren't meaningless despite his plan amounting to a game of keep away. And that while he's made many mistakes, he'll keep doing it so long as he can because he's sees it as the right thing to do. Hell, The Lost Fable itself pretty much illustrates why Oz tries and why he doesn't give up. Hazel would likely stop if he finally got an answer rather than just "Your sister knew the risks and gave her life despite that."

I'm saying we don't have the whole story, but that even then, Hazel's reaction on the surface is entirely human. So it honestly kinda disturbs me how he's decried as a hypocritical moron, since it feels like people are ignoring human nature. People always talk as if they'd take the high road or do the right thing should they be in someone's shoes. And then it actually happens. And what ends up happening? They give in to their emotions and base instincts and fail to practice what they preach.

I'm not condemning Hazel for what he's done because if I was in his shoes and didn't immediately kill myself, ''I'd do what he did. ''I care little about the world already and while I try to emphasize with people, if the one person I cared about more than anything died because of someone like Oz and my only options where to either go against Oz or Salem, I'd side with Salem and go after Oz. Cause at that point: Fuck the world. Fuck innocents. Fuck optimism. And Fuck me. The world's a trashheap that can burn and I'll gladly be the lighter, just so long as I can find the son of a bitch responsible for their death and force them to say to my face why they had to die right before blowing their brains out. Cause at that point, I'm all out of fucks to give about the world, the people in it, and any sense of hope or moral righteousness. I'll gladly be a selfish son of a bitch at that point.

And if anyone here wants to condemn me for what I just said: go ahead. I don't care. Cause guess what? If you want to stick to your guns should that happen, you're morally better than me. But make sure you actually do so. I'll gladly abandon all morals if I ever reach the point Hazel is at, alone in bleak world with nothing left to live for.

I left this message cause I had a misconception about you Spirited. But I can see in terms of logic vs emotion, we are diametrically opposed.

I bid you farewell for now.