Board Thread:Episode Discussion/@comment-4141313-20181215021300/@comment-25936766-20181225150905

BlizzardDragon wrote: 1) The first episode of the season implies Licenses are digital now, so he should have access to it on his Scroll. So why he didn't have that out is the question.

2) Now, the Kids being a result of inheriting magic from him is possible, considering Salem and Ozma having kids made them magic users, so maybe Ozma and a normal human just made Silver Eyes.

3) Understandable. I'd just like to think after his response to Hazel, he wouldn't so easily run away,  but that's just as likely.

4) Weiss didn't really treat him like an asshole, just get mad at him for trying to say what's best for her, and as we discussed back in the Episode 2 thread. 5) The pulling weapons thing I'd chalk up to them thinking Qrow would try to take the Relic from Ruby much like Ozpin tried a minute later, making them a bit jumpy.

6) Saying they think he's coldblooded is putting words in their mouth....

6.1) Yang, already having Raven's talons sunk into her and more prone to acting on emotion than on logic, is the opposite extreme and calls him a "bastard".

7) As for his point, it only happened like that because he let it get that far. Why did they have to ask Jinn for the information? Because he was trying his damnedest to make sure they don't know everything.

8) Yeah, he had a tragic past and didn't want them seeing it, but the entire thing could have been avoided if he was just the tiniest bit more open with them, like say, tell them that Salem's immortal but the focus isn't killing her, just stopping her from killing every thing?

9) And again, how have they all treated him badly? Only Yang, Qrow, and Jaune have had bad reactions to Ozpin specifically rather than Salem's immortality, and they all have their reasons.

10) Also, Salem being immortal does change one thing for them. Possibility versus Futility....To them, before it was a simple as taking care of an epidemic of wild boar. Now, its like trying to kill a never ending army of zombies with the capacity to think, learn, and plan.

11) And for the processing thin, one more point: They are teenagers. They won't think rationally, they won't think logically, they are hormonelly addled teenagers- 1) It actually creates another question: Why not ask Cordovin to check their IDs or something then? They would be on a network somewhere.

2) Nope, no, that argument fails to explain how Reincarnation leads to Anti-Grimm Nuke, an idea that makes no sense in the slightest anyway. It's like saying that a Pyromancer's kid would inherit the power to control Ice.

3) But remember: He didn't know how far Ozpin's chain of incarnations went, or how powerful Salem alone was, when he told that to Hazel.

4) She did, however, back up Yang like a total "Yes" Woman, she even imitated her poses to an extent. She didn't say the words but she supported them whole-heartedly.

5) Ok, now, why would they think Qrow would do that to the extent that threatening him was deemed like a remotely-appropiate response? They didn't even let him speak. Most egregious considering what Qrow is to Yang.

Actually, this is even worse. She didn't even think of fighting Raven despite all her lies, despite siding with Cinder, despite trying to leave them to die at Haven. Yet she inmediately considered punching Qrow before he even tried anything out of a chance that he would, by the Maker, just grab the Relic?

I'm almost convinced Yang is a closet masochist. The worse you treat her the more she likes you.

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6) Wasn't being literal. I could've used "smug asshole" or "sick bastard" or "cruel jerk" or etc. My point is, they see him as completely untrustworthy at best, and a monster at worst.

6.1) This is bad enough in itself. There's 0 logic and reason for Yang trusting Raven so much on this. "Question everything" is a decent aesop, but Raven's a murderer who abandoned her all her life and spent all of Vol.5 lying for selfish reasons, and she didn't even give an actual argument for why Ozpin can't be trusted.

And yet from the get-go Yang was already fully convinced Ozpin was a demon in flesh or something, and even a Volume later that didn't change.

7) Well, Oscar interrupted him. For all we know Ozpin would've at least managed to defuse the situation - even if not enough to save his reputation with them - if Oscar didn't cut him off to act like an agonizing elephant.

8) The thing is, it wouldn't have worked. Just telling them "Salem is inmortal" would cause panic and despair. The heroes, all of them (sans Oscar and Maria), completely ignored everything Jinn showed them and focused only on the last line of the episode...and ended up panicking and despairing.

Humans before humans? The Gods of Light and Darkness? Ozma spending entire lifetimes crying himself to sleep? They don't give a fuck about any of that, "You can't destroy Salem", that's all they care about, not even a drop of sympathy for Ozma, who never asked for any of that and yet still tried to do something to prevent her from killing everyone.

Even if Ozpin told them the truth, the exact same situation would've happened. Yang would still treat him like a cold-blooded bastard who sent them to their deaths without hope, Qrow would still punch him in the face, and the rest would still see him as untrustworthy for not telling them sooner regardless of his reasons.

9) The most rational sans Maria and Ren - Ruby - sees him as untrustworthy, ignoring all the good he has done, and doesn't even seem to have much sympathy for what he's been through. Oscar is confused so I skip him. Qrow, Yang and Jaune are hard on the "Ozpin Sucks" team. The rest though? Do you see any one of them ever trying to argue that maybe Ozpin isn't that bad, at least?

These 3 are the most vocal and salty, doesn't mean the rest don't agree with them. They clearly do, they just aren't salty and hotheaded enough to scream about it. It's a typical case where everyone hates the same guy, and treat him accordingly, but leave the actual talking-down to a select few who take the initiative.

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10) And the alternative is, what, just lying on the ground and dying? That's exactly what Ozpin was trying to prevent. Which was my point, he doesn't tell them all the shit because then they just give up, if not worse.

It doesn't change a simple and important thing however: Grimm. It doesn't matter if Salem is alive or not, it doesn't matter if she can be killed or not, the Grimm are a threat to everyone, and if no one ever does anything, they will just do in a couple of years what Steve did in a flash.

They can't kill Salem. Ok. But they can kill Grimm. Are they going to just let Grimm kill every person on Remnant just because their leader can't die? Why become Huntsmen in the first place then? They didn't know Salem existed when they chose to become monster-slayers and guardians of the people. Salem's existence doesn't change their job either.

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11) Counterargument: Qrow Branwen. Now sure, he's a depressed drunk, I don't expect him to be the most rational person on Remnant. But he's the second oldest and most experienced in the group and has been working with Ozpin for decades.

I'm not expecting him to start seeing Oz again in a good light or to stop drinking, but he should be at least somewhere on the line of where Maria's head is.