Board Thread:Episode Discussion/@comment-4141313-20190126081959/@comment-4141313-20190204071032

The Devil&#039;s Advocate WP wrote: BlizzardDragon wrote: 1. 1. No, you couldn't say the same for me, not accurately at least.

2. Are you serious? No, War-making ability is not only about resources and man-power, its also about justification behind declaration of war, a unified agreement towards said declaration from the ruling bodies, and the willingness of both sides to partake in the war. If only a single side is partaking, its not a war, just a siege or attack. 2.

4. That is an assumption based solely on speculation. 4.

5. Except you are then ignoring Hazel's last line of the episode.

Hazel:  If you want something done right... do it yourself.

If Salem was trying to instigate a war, in what way is making a horde of Beringhal with wings doing something right herself. The line is implying Salem isn't sitting in Evernight anymore, but is making an army to launch an assault on Atlas. She's already sent Watts, an established hacker thanks to creating the Queen Virus, and Tyrian, a deranged psycho, ahead to make sure Ironwood can't ask for aid from Vacuo. 5.

6. To deal with a War subplot eats up time, and is ultimately unneccesary since Salem can easily strongarm her way into Atlas like she had Cinder do at Vale. 6.

7. The Sword of Destruction only has Shade to guard it, the Lamp of Knowledge is being taken to Atlas, the Crown of Choice is MIA, and the Staff of Creation is in Atlas, meaning if Salem wants to achieve her goals, Atlas is the biggest obstacle, so rather than waste time and try to instigate a war, she's gonna make it first fall apart from within, then make it come crashing down. Salem's entire sthick is weakening her enemies from the inside out so they're easier to conquer. 7. Atlas is the biggest enemy she faces and far greater in power than any of the other Kingdoms. Does not seem she has an inside track with the Kingdom or the Academy either. Nothing she has done up to this point will work because it is too small scale or relies on cards they've already played and thus can't rely on a second time with a well-prepared enemy.

I'm not really talking anything different than you except in terms of scale. Atlas is essentially a global empire and is the most technologically advanced Kingdom on Remnant. Right now, the overwhelming bulk of that strength is completely centered around the Kingdom. Getting a powerful, highly advanced superpower to gather all its strength in one place and then trying to brute-force your way through it all is like the dumbest strategy ever.

8.  8. This all seems incredibly lame and repetitive, which is my whole point. 1. My calling you arrogant is because you believe this is buildup period, and the fact you're saying the series will become boring just because it continues down the route it has set up rather than adhere to what you desire. For one thing, boring is entirely subjective, so even if it doesn't go down a war narrative, you may think its boring, but I doubt everyone will. And I am not saying its a definitive fact, I am saying what is more likely to happen based on evidence the show has provided, namely the current course of events, the greater plot itself, and the various tropes Merry employs in their writing. I am perfectly fine with being wrong, so long as it makes sense. A war narrative at this point in the story doesn't make sense.

2. I am not going any further on this point because then we'll end up in a big political argument, something I want to keep out of the thread. I will say this however:

This is fiction. The inside perspective is all that matters if that is the core of the narrative. If the outsider perspective doesn't matter to the narrative, it doesn't matter to the story. Since most of the cast aren't invested in war, war doesn't matter, and it would only really matter if it impacted the story in a way that makes sense and affects the narrative overall. So a war is declared between Atlas and Vacuo? Then what? What does it ultimately matter to the mission of securing the relics when the protagonists aren't in the Atlesian Military, nor are residents of Vacuo? What does it matter to the villains if their only goal is getting the Relics, when a war would probably make things harder for them since constant fighting means the kingdoms are harder to access, and history has demonstrated they'll still unite to fight the Grimm.

4. That wasn't my argument. Of course we know other teams went to Vacuo. My argument was that them going to Vacuo does nothing to change how their Kingdom ultimately works. Neither CFVY nor SSSN went to Shade with the intent of warning them so that what happened at Beacon and Haven doesn't happen again. CFVY went to finish their studies. SSSN went so Sun could try and be a better leader for his team, and finish their studies. Their is nothing to suggest them going is going to make Vacuo suddenly centralize enough in the event a war was brewing.

5. Except Ruby herself they already assume is in Atlas. If they are being made to kidnap Ruby, they'd need to attack Atlas, and if they're already attacking Atlas, why wouldn't they just try to get the other relic right then and there?!

6. It wasn't just because of Ruby's eyes they won Beacon. They won the moment Cinder killed Ozpin. Glynda wasn't able to fight off the Grimm on her own, Ironwood had to retreat to Atlas, Beacon Tower fell, and they had the Fall Maiden Powers. The only thing Ruby did was detrimental to their plans by means of scaring Cinder, and even then that was barely anything, since petrifying the Wyvern may have stopped it from moving, but didn't stop it from attracting more Grimm.

Even then, that didn't include Salem, a woman completely indestructible with the ability to wield Magic, coming to wreck their shit. No one even said anything about controlling Atlas tech, since they only did that to make the public think Atlas was attacking Beacon and cause more Panic, I said shut Atlas tech down, as in make it work no more. Watts is shown to have made the virus, and as a former Atlesian Scientist, most likely has a grasp on how they operate, considering he was able to make something capable of infecting their tech in the first place. And expecting Ironwood to update his firewall is a little much when he didn't even bother to check Beacon Tower for bugs after Cinder infiltrated it.

7. Thats not what I said. I said cripple the empire first, then storm it. When fighting an enemy, you don't charge at them like a moron, you look for a weakness, exploit it, then kill them when they're weakened. Atlas' weakness is its overreliance on its tech, which is what led to its downfall at Beacon. Unless Atlas has found a way to prevent that weakness from being exploited again, its still available to exploit, only this time in a different manner. Previously, they took control of it. This time, they need only neutralize it. If you don't want a virus to be the answer, than a strong enough EMP is another way to cripple Atlas tech. Without their paladins, knights, airships, or mech in general, they are limited to foot soldiers, and when pit against Salem and an army of Grimm, my money is on Salem.

8. Again, subjective, so just because you think its a bad idea, doesn't mean it automatically is lame.

Even then, its not exactly the same.

Exactly the same was the plan for Haven compared to Beacon, simply without the Atlas factor. Have the White Fang attack and cause panic over them, destroy the tower, get the maiden, get the relic, Academy is destroyed. But that plan failed. So Salem has altered the Plan. She's getting involved herself, she's modifying Grimm to better suit the enviroment, she's preparing to attack without giving them the opportunity to rest. Haven just happened three weeks ago, and Atlas is next.