Board Thread:Speculation House/@comment-34633327-20171002160810/@comment-25936766-20171003185440

Okay, I admit I haven't read the rest of the comments here, I'm just gonna focus on the original points for now.

KingFubuki92 wrote:

1. Both have a "prodigy" under their care they took in specifically to use for their abilities. Salem recruited Cinder to make her into a Maiden, Ozpin recruited Ruby for her Silver Eyes.

2. Both use propaganda to manipulate the public eye. Salem through Cinder lead the people think the kingdoms were on the brink of war, Ozpin tried to maintain a facade of peace.

3. Both create an armed force molded to their design. Salem has the Grimm, Ozpin trains Huntsman to follow his ideals.

4. Both are content with acceptable loses if it can further their goal. Salem sacrificing the Dragon (Assuming not many exist) to allow Cinder access to the Maiden's powers,

5. Ozpin allowing Amber to die so as to get her power into Pyrrha (doing so would have killed Amber), and (assumedly) hoping something would Emotionally trigger Ruby to allow her to awaken the SEW powers.

6. ............... He believes the Maiden's and the Relics should be kept secret in order to avoid people trying to claim them, not that that stopped Cinder from going after the Maiden's,

7. ...........Ozpin could have maybe, I don't know, moved Amber's pod with help from Glynda?)

8. What did he want to do about the impending threat during the Vytal Festival? Lie about it and keep the facade of their being peace.

9. Anyone agree with me that Ozpin seems no better than Salem in this regard? 1) Nothing says Cinder is a "prodigy". She's in her early 20s, she should at the very least have a similar amount of strength, skill and experience that would be expected of a graduated-huntsman, + she's in the prime of her life physically-speaking.

2) Propaganda isn't just a single speech given after a public murder. And last time I checked, Cinder wasn't making it seem like they were about to start Great War II, but instead just making the people think the governments can't really be trusted.

3) "to follow his ideals". What a convinient choice of words. You make it sound like Ozpin trains students to fit his own design, and not to, you know, prevent the Grimm from killing everyone, Salem or no. And he's not the only one.

If anything, Ironwood's worse, since in Atlas students aren't just trained, but also nagged to join the army.

4) Nothing says Salem sacrificed the Dragon. That would be stupid. Everything says that the Dragon getting petrified was most definitely not part of any plan, but at the same time, it is less consequential than it seems.

5) Now it gets ridiculous and it's just you demonizing Ozpin to suit your design of Ozpin and Salem "being so similar".

First, Amber was basically comatose and if they did nothing she would've died anyway. If that happens, chances were Cinder would get the rest of the Fall Maiden's powers, and that would be bad. Transfering her Aura to Pyrrha, while the consequences were unknown, was miles preferable to letting Amber truly die for nothing beyond giving Cinder, and thus Salem, more power.

Second, while Ozpin letting Ruby into Beacon for her Silver Eyes is likely, assuming that he hoped something would trigger Ruby emotionally in order to activate said Silver Eyes is just a baseless accusation done for nothing but demonization. If he wanted her to unlock her powers so desperately, he would've just told her, like they told Pyrrha about the Maidens.

6) The very power of Destruction, Creation, Knowledge, and whatever Choice does. Or, the power of literal control over the elements without Dust. Does that sound like something you would like everyone fighting each other for? Does that sound like something that should be risked falling into the hands of some greedy, selfish bastard?

Keeping them secret was the only logical choice.

7) The pods did not seem separate. They seemed connected to the machine, which was connected to the wall and floor, so they can't just grab them and throw them. And ripping either of the pods while Amber was there is literally disconnecting her from the only thing keeping her alive.

8) The Grimm are literally attracted to negative emotions like fear. Just what do you think would've happened if he told the people "By the way, we got this huge Grimm horde right at our borders, looking at us. Thank you for listening, please enjoy the festival"?

Obviously, mass panic happens, and everyone dies even sooner.

9) While I agree that Ozpin is no saint at all, no, I do not agree with you on this. Your points are mostly twisting facts or using specific wording to demonize Ozpin's actions, often by ignoring the end of said actions, which is what separates evil from good.

A man shooting a killer for justice. A man shooting a child for fun. Both shot someone, but the motives make a world of difference.