Talk:Jacques Schnee/@comment-124.197.38.215-20180426021846/@comment-26018514-20180427075510

I don't think you understand... Raven's main sin is pride, both Yang and Qrow essentially spit in her face when they declined to join the tribe, they also made clear they are the tribes enemies... one doesn't offer enemies quarter, and Raven's decision to help Salem was made on behalf of her role as Tribal leader.

As Qrow described, Raven's definition of Family is skewed; Raven considers:

THE TRIBE = FAMILY

Yang, she never considered her daughter, she offered to let her join and Yang declined... which made YANG = NOT FAMILY

Qrow, seems to have been considered by Raven and Raven alone as part of the tribe, she has likely fought for years the opinion of others in the tribe that he is a traitor... which likely usually means the person ends up dead in a gutter or their home like Tukson... but she was likely always the only one they could send who stood a chance at killing him anyways... so it never happened. She convinced them he could rejoin... he said no, this makes him not only NOT FAMILY, but he knows their ways and secrets, which makes him a threat to her and the tribe.

Cinder offers her a devil's bargain; your FAMILY, or the Relic

She countered with: Kill Threat to FAMILY, I'll help you get Relic

Raven Chose FAMILY, because in her own twisted way she loves something other than herself, that her definition of FAMILY is not the normal one doesn't matter, it is not HERSELF.

Jacques, on the other hand, is shown loving, trusting, and promoting only HIMSELF.

Redemption is found only in aiding or promoting something other than yourself... which can be your moral standard... which Jacques also lacks; Thus, Raven can be redeemed, but Jacques cannot.