Talk:Salem/@comment-26073173-20180409020550/@comment-25936766-20180409113936

Watts said it best right when Raven threw that plan at them. They already had the perfect plan, they would've been able to get into Haven with 0 opposition, get the Relic, and then leave with 0 fighting needed, and then the WF can destroy Haven.

In other words, their plan was no risk, full reward.

Cinder, meanwhile, basically forced everyone into following the new plan: Draw the heroes into Haven on the very same day the WF would blow it up, and kill them all.

Problem being, that plan does have risk, and it doesn't guarantee a reward. Cinder assumed they could just curb-stomp the heroes (and, granted, that's more or less what happened), she never expected them to win.

Another thing she didn't expect was Menagerie, which also ties with the previous thing. If the heroes never went to Haven thanks to Cinder's plan, then the Menagerians deal with the WF, but Cinder and co. can just say that they were being held hostage or something, avoiding further suspicion and still being able to get the Relic without needing to fight anyone.

And finally, Vernal. Cinder betrayed Vernal and Raven before they could open the door to the Relic, which was an extremely retarded move done purely for the evulz. What if Vernal really was the Spring Maiden but 1 person couldn't have multiple Maiden Powers? Then Cinder would've killed their only key, gotten no reward for it, and they can't get the Relic.

And, of course, she did it assuming she could just kill the Spring Maiden. She never expected her to kick her ass.

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So in summary: Cinder was the reason the villains failed pathetically. Everything she did, on their own, could've ruined the original plan that was already perfect.

If Salem is still pleased after those news, my hopes in her will drop like flies.