Board Thread:Speculation House/@comment-27143816-20160216033644/@comment-14909251-20160613234339

SomeoneYouUsedToKnow wrote: 1-Well, for starters, it would be contradictory to protect the Maidens to send them to their possible deaths against Grimm. Also, since Salem controls the Grimm (reasonable assumption at least, here), do you think Ozpin would risk the Maidens being anywhere close to her territory without at least a guardian?

Do you not realize how ridiculous it is for you to assume such things? We are to believe they train them and manage them yet somehow don't intend to use them much, if at all. It is just so ludicrous that I can't believe you are arguing this for any reason other than because you hate someone's speculation and stubbornly refuse to consider it.

1.2-It also suggests she was traveling around the countryside. Nothing suggests she was on a mission or coming back from one.

To get at a point you made, were they really so protective that they would not let her go about unaccompanied then why was she traveling the countryside alone?

2-These settlements don't normally last though.

I feel what we are supposed to gather is that Amber is coming back into civilization and so this would be close to Vale yet not in Vale. The closer a settlement is to the Kingdom the more likely it will last for a while. Roads and fences can, obviously, exist even after a settlement has been destroyed, but it doesn't really matter for our purposes.

And yes, for every tough Grimm in Beacon there were about 12 mook ones.....so? There are still hundreds Grimm in Beacon, on air and ground, and they are attracted to the Dragon, heading where it is. Where's the Dragon again?

The point here is that even if we assume she cannot avoid all the Grimm, her odds of running into weak Grimm that can be more readily dispensed with even absent a weapon are higher than her running into stronger Grimm.

3-Her actions during the initiation showed no real Team experience. She was used to fighting alone, not alongside others, even less people she didn't even know. She knew how to fight Grimm more than well enough, just not how to fight Grimm with others well enough

Fighting as a team or alone doesn't really change that someone with significant experience should have sufficient situational awareness to not jump in front of another person's attack. That's a rookie mistake regardless of whether one prefers to fight alone.

4-Nope, we have every reason to believe Ruby had field experience prior to Beacon, and no real reason to believe Amber does.

So now you are saying this super-powered person guided by some of the most capable figures in Remnant has zero field experience based off absolutely nothing at all, not only assuming that she has less field experience than a teenage rookie. You are just being absurd at this point.

5-Yes, it means he ran a lot at the very least, possibly had more fights after the Taijitu on the way. Now, in your little theory, Amber would have to run more and would likely need to fight more than Ren did at that time. Of course, check my following point.

The difference is that Amber wouldn't have to worry about protecting anyone else and has no set objective other than escape. During the initiation they had to look for a partner, find a temple, get a relic, and then leave. We don't know what field experience, if any, Ren had prior as well. I think it is safe to presume that his ability during the initiation does not represent the peak of a huntsman or huntress's abilities, but at best a high starting point.

6-Actually, I was saying that she would not necesarily have as poor stamina as Ren, or be as (physically) strong as he is, or know how to do the Aura Techniques he did (at least to the same extent). IOW: She may have more stamina, be just as strong, but not know the techniques, for example. Also, she relied a bit too much on her Maiden powers during her fight, just saying.

I think she didn't show a reliance on it at all. She used Aura and Dust at first then when they kept pressuring her she tried to shut them down completely with Maiden powers, then went into hand-to-hand with some apparent usage of Aura. Reason she lost is because it was a well-coordinated blitz attack by three highly experienced and capable fighters who knew exactly what they were up against.

7-I assume it works like super awareness; they feel the presence. I could also say it works like smell if not like a radar. These are all perfectly reasonable assumptions. When I say it works both ways, I did not mean that the Grimm would hide and wait or something like that. I meant more that, while they would have a harder time seeing Amber, she would have a harder time seeing them as well, but unlike Amber, the Grimm can sense any negative emotions she has so they have an easier time noticing her than she does to them.

Thing about it being a forest is that she doesn't even need to be on the ground where they are more likely to catch her unaware.

8-This is an argument about a theory, child. There need to be points argued between both sides that both support and deny it. You can't expect everyone to inmediately agree with the Ambyrrha Theory. We don't think it's possible, and give our points for why. Just because you are the only one supporting it it doesn't change or mean anything.

Insult me all you like, but what you two are doing is just petty. What I expect is not for people to agree with it, but that they not try to exhaust themselves coming up with any excuse they can conjure to shoot it down then brag about how much smarter they are when well over half the things they say are just baseless assumptions. You aren't even allowing a discussion about the implications of the theory, which is far more interesting to me than all this nonsense.

9-That sounds like arrogance.

Saying I am not arrogant is arrogance? Are you trolling me here?

10-Our basis lie in logical reasoning, at least mine. Not too different from yours, only that your reasonings are less logical, more "assumption". Or more exactly, we got reasonable assumptions, yours are more often than not just assumptions. If you disagree, what are your basis for your points? Do you think your points actually have a solid basis, at least compared to ours?

This is exactly what I am talking about in terms of arrogance. You accuse me of arrogance for saying I am not being arrogant, then turn around and brag about how much more "logical" and "reasonable" you are than me. How is it more logical to suggest Amber in the context of who was overseeing her, the importance they attached to her, and what we saw of her non-Maiden abilities would not be capable of merely escaping alive?

I'm not attaching a high threshold here or anything. We saw unarmed civvies managing to escape two different Grimm rampages, including the one you are so certain would do her in, yet you act as if I'm being unreasonable to suggest that a far more capable person could simply not die. It is not as if she is the only person the Grimm might think to target given the entire city of distressed people just a short jaunt away or as if there aren't any other things that might distract them such as the giant Grimm Dragon being taken out.

SomeoneYouUsedToKnow wrote: PS: I just (re)saw Amber's fight after posting that (posting this here because previous comment was too long). First, she used a staff, that's not Hand-to-Hand, that's close-quarters.

Hardly an important point.

And she still got kicked and stomped, and the staff broke, which means her Aura skill is not really high, since otherwise her Aura should have prevented that (at least, prevented it so soon into the fight).

The staff never broke. It got knocked out of her hands.

At that point she did use Hand-to-Hand....but very basic, and not even half as "impressive and significant" as you think, Advocate. Good at most by Hunter standards, not good enough to deal with the number of Grimm at Beacon, and there's still in the air whether or not she knew the Aura techniques Ren used, cause she never used them.

I mean, she was having no trouble knocking around both Mercury and Emerald at the same time with just her hands, but you go ahead and call that just "good" and "basic" if you like.

Arkantos95 wrote: I don't understand why they'd go through all the trouble of stating multiple times that it was an Aura transfer and then not show Aura being transfered. That's just poor cinematography.

Are you just not reading my comments or something? I am saying only that the coloring is meant to signify that Maiden powers were also being transferred. That way we can track them moving into Pyrrha then going into Cinder. Nowhere did I suggest they weren't also showing Aura being transferred, just that the colored glow specifically is the Maiden powers.

I don't really think the negative emotions going on in Vale are going to keep them from noticing anything Amber would be feeling, and we have no reason to assume she has the ability to supress her emotions. I don't understand why you insist on assuming she's this demigod-tier badass elite surviavalist when we have no reason to assume so.

Except nothing I am suggesting requires her to be that. It only requires that she can keep a cool head in the face of danger, be sneaky, and defend herself if absolutely necessary.

Amber's capability relative to Ren's is irrelevant. The point is we have no reason to believe she knows all of the Aura techniques he displayed, because not everyone would have reason to learn them.

She obviously would have reason to learn them for the same reason she would have to learn hand-to-hand combat and how to use Aura period. They want every Maiden to be as capable of protecting themselves as they are of protecting others.

The fact that Amber has been completely unable to heal since being attacked by Cinder suggests she doesn't have the Aura reserves she normarlly would.

We don't know anything about what Cinder did or how it affected her so you are, again, just making assumptions that you have no basis for whatsoever. It could be that the Grimm technique has a deleterious effect on the body that is more rapid than Aura's normal healing effect.

It makes much more sense from every perspective to create a weapon designed to attack your opponent's greatest cumulative advantage over your forces rather than something that only works against one of their four super soldiers.

Clearly, the purpose is to give her acolytes the powers of those super soldiers, so I would say it makes perfect sense to make something that can only be used against them, assuming it can only be used against them or that it is even being used for its normal purpose. You are making a lot of assumptions here, again, and we have no basis for those assumptions.

Only Atlas maintains a standing army. That is 100% stated canon.

Not technically true, but it still doesn't change that being a soldier would not require that someone be from Atlas.

Comparitavely Cimber is far more likely, and it has the added benefit of not having a chance of reversing the most meaningful moment in the entire series thus far.

It isn't far more likely. That theory relies entirely on an assumption we have zero basis for making. Your last remark probably gets to why you are so insistent on tearing the idea down, but I would say it isn't a concern. Provided it was done right, it could make the whole thing even more meaningful.