Talk:Cinder Fall/@comment-25177439-20171021060824/@comment-27045477-20171030100251

Going to address everyone here in one post.



Blackchaos27, Salem's campaign is not against humanity, it's against Ozpin. She criticizes him for how he treats humans and has humans as her allies.



SomeoneYouUsedToKnow, you have the best response here so I’ll address each part of it here.



"Did you...magically forget everything between Volume 1 and Volume 3?"



No, those were the good seasons! I'm talking about V4 onwards, where Cinder was replaced with Salem (an inferior copy of herself). RT didn't hate Cinder until V4.

"And even after being emotionally crushed by getting blasted in the face with the power of Deus Ex Machina"

Chekov's Gun, not DEM. Learn your plot devices. DEM comes out of nowhere and magically solves all of the problems. Ruby's thing was set up back in V1 and only temporarily set back the antagonists, AFTER they'd already won.

"by the end of Volume 4 she's back to badass again, more than before."



She's also shockingly out of character. She acts submissive and subservient to the crappy new main antagonist. Remember her character-establishing line from V2? "It's not about overpowering an enemy. It's about taking away what power they have." How does she act in V5E2? She says "We have the strength, why don't we just use force?”.  THIS IS LITERALLY THE OPPOSITE OF HOW SHE'S SUPPOSED TO ACT.



Her defiance is gone, replaced with subservience. She went from an smart, clever, defiant revolutionary to a weak, pathetic pawn driven by rage and revenge. I'd be fine with this if they actually called out the fact she's acting different now, but RT expect us to believe that she was ALWAYS this way and V1-3 Cinder never existed, apparently. Her merely changing would have been fine. Pretending that she was never like that, and retroactively assigning all her character traits to Salem instead, is what really pisses me off.

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;font-family:"HelveticaNeue";color:rgb(69,69,69);">As for what Lord Jaric said, no. Cinder's role was set up as "the main antagonist". Taking her out of that role makes her effectively useless. The character we have now is vastly different, as I've explained before. The only similarities are their facial features, powers, and name.

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;font-family:"HelveticaNeue";color:rgb(69,69,69);">The guy with the Flynt avatar just hates her. Not even going to bother as it isn't relevant to the conversation.