Board Thread:Speculation House/@comment-43756665-20200208204457/@comment-43756665-20200215093512

The Devil&#039;s Advocate WP wrote:

Cinder, and I know everyone hates this, is really not someone I think they can kill off right now. The fact remains that she is the Fall Maiden and that makes her the key to the Beacon vault. While that power can switch, there really isn't a good place for it to go and it really needs to stay with Salem's side until around the return to Beacon. I love Neo, but she is a terrible replacement for Cinder. Emerald is also a very poor replacement and she works better as an eventual heel-face turn than as an emerging antagonist.

Some of the hatred for Cinder seems to be people taking a fictional show a little too seriously and personally, but I don't get the rest of it. Cinder is the ideal secondary antagonist and her ceasing in that role is best reserved for right before the final confrontation with the primary antagonist. Her character has personal history with all of the protagonists, can play the role of a strong fighter and devious manipulator, and she has hints of moral complexity that is at about the right balance to make her credible as an antagonist without making her seem like a mook. I like a lot of what you wrote in your comment, but this is something that I have to fervently disagree with. And don't take this the wrong way, but I think this needs to be pointed out. You have a tendency to call out people's 'hatred' for Cinder. What you say in this regard is entirely true, by the way. There's a lot of bias against her.

But I think it needs to be said, you are inherently biased in favor of her. You can deny it all you want, but I've read your comments, and it shows. There's nothing wrong with that. This is, as you said, a fictional show, and there's nothing out of the ordinary about favoring a character.

With that said, whether you like her or hate her, Cinder is an objectively terrible villain. And I say terrible not as a criticism of who she is in the context of the show, but of how she's written. Look, it's okay for a villain to be pure evil. Lots of popular villains are written this way. But the key to making this type of antagonist work is to dress it up a little. To disguise it.

There's this thing in the writing community that's referred to by some as 'the switch'. It's a concept that refers to a vast array of character types, but in the case of villains it refers to the ability to go from pleasant and ordinary to sinister and terrifying in the blink of an eye, and to seamlessly phase in and out of it. It's essential to the type of villain that Cinder embodies.

I'm going to include a series of clips of villains from film and television that embody this trait, and I'd like you to watch them because it perfectly defines what I'm talking about.

Hans Landa (Inglourious Basterds)

Lenny Busker (Legion)

Hannibal Lecter (The Silence of the Lambs)

Tuco Salamanca (Breaking Bad)

Terence Fletcher (Whiplash)

The thing that all of these villains have in common is contrast. Their perceived good behavior serves two functions: to lull the audience into a false sense of security, and to accentuate the inevitable horror that follows. This is the cornerstone of most great villains. It is possible to execute a villain without the switch, but only if the actor in question is delivering a performance so powerful that it doesn't require it.

Cinder profoundly lacks this ability. She is completely incapable of acting pleasant and ordinary, which sabotages her when she's trying to be menacing. Take, for example, the final scene from Volume 2, Chapter 2. The scene where Cinder first comes face to face with Ruby. Many have openly mocked this exchange, citing that Cinder is acting clearly evil and questioning why Ruby is unaware of this blatantly obvious fact.

Cinder is always in 'evil' mode. Hell, RT openly acknowledges this by satirizing it relentlessly in RWBY Chibi. That they admit her ultimate fault and allow it to play to humorous ends is the primary reason why Chibi Cinder is so much more popular than canon Cinder.

What this amounts to is one-dimensionality, which is only further exacerbated by Cinder's fundamental lack of backstory and character motivation, along with her inately monotone personality. The totality of this (the lack of the switch, the lack of understandable motivation, and the lack of raw charisma) generates a villain that is simply boring, flat, and uninteresting.

The ultimate proof comes in Volume 3, when Cinder hijacks the Amity broadcast to address the crowd of onlookers. This is the type of villainous act that writers salivate over. It's been done dozens of times throughout the history of storytelling, and Cinder's rendition of it is among the most boring. When a bad guy hijacks a broadcast to deliver a chilling manifesto to an audience of terrified civilians, it really ought to look more like this:

Russell Edgington (True Blood)

The difference between that guy and Cinder? Passion and inflection: two things that Cinder struggles to accentuate.

And that is why RT needs to hit the abort button with regard to Cinder. Yes, Cinder has history with the heroes. Yes, Cinder is intelligent and devious. Yes, Cinder has moral complexity. But despite all that, Cinder's personality is still less exciting and less interesting than a wet carrot.  You're wrong: Neo is the perfect replacement for Cinder. She's entertaining, exciting, and can pose as pleasant and ordinary, only to strike with ferocity when it's least expected.

Neo has all the characteristics that are needed to become a truly great villain: one that's terrifying, enthralling, and beloved by the audience. And what's more, she doesn't even need to speak to do it. All she really needs is some more confrontation with team RWBY, and a touch more backstory, and she'd be the perfect new Fall Maiden.