Talk:Salem/@comment-34724302-20180428093942/@comment-25936766-20180621230755

Except, even if Ruby herself has no real control regarding getting the Maiden Powers, it would still make her go up on the Mary Sue scale if she got them. And doing everything without question is only a trait of a Mary Sue, not a rule.

See, a Mary Sue has no definitive traits that automatically make them a Mary Sue. It's the high-enough combination of those traits that make a character a Sue, particularly (but not necesarily) the character not fitting within the established world of the work. Ruby herself already has some traits from as far back as Vol.1:

>Not even finished Combat School yet she has enough skill - Ozpin outright compares her to Qrow - to be kicked 2 years ahead to the most prestigious Academy on Vale if not Remnant.

>Becomes leader of her team despite lack of notable leader traits (at the time) or combat experience (she literally threw herself alone into a scorpion tank supported by a giant crow without even thinking).

>>Weiss legit gets a sermon and is painted as "in the wrong" for complaining about Ruby being the team leader despite her clear inmaturity (Not that acting as if she would be much better did her any favors, but she had good reasons for not trusting Ruby's worth).

>Member of an extremely rare group of special people, with a power that is specifically effective against the very monsters that have been attacking mankind for ages.

>Managed to petrify an ancient Grimm and scar a Maiden - who had just killed the Big Good who is miles more powerful than Ruby - in one flash.

>Has next-to-no important flaws, and any "flaw" she has rarely, if ever, has any negative consequences. For comparison: Weiss often jumps to conclusions, which led to V1E15-16, and later on to almost killing a bitch and losing inheritance of the SDC. Yang has anger issues which were exploited as part of Cinder's plans. And so on.

>Beyond very small, few and far between moments here and there, Ruby seems utterly unnaffected by her experiences, becoming static, with only 1 episode so far implying anything deeper than "smiley optimistic one-liner".

On their own these things would be fine. But add them up and Ruby is getting closer and closer to Sueness.