Board Thread:Episode Discussion/@comment-4141313-20190126081959/@comment-14909251-20190205193311

BlizzardDragon wrote: 1. My calling you arrogant is because you believe this is buildup period

Literally in this Volume:

"Atlas is strong. If all the kingdoms plan to make us their enemy, then so be it! Atlas will prevail!"

Two Volumes ago, apparently from Ironwood himself as relayed through Jacques:

"Atlas is forbidden from exporting Dust to other Kingdoms. 'A precautionary measure', as he puts it, 'until we're certain no one is going to declare war'. How anyone could possibly find that to be sound logic is beyond me."

I could bring up all the quotes and situations they have created, but we know this already. They are building up the idea of there being tensions between the Kingdoms and even suggesting the possibility of war.

the fact you're saying the series will become boring just because it continues down the route it has set up rather than adhere to what you desire. For one thing, boring is entirely subjective, so even if it doesn't go down a war narrative, you may think its boring, but I doubt everyone will. And I am not saying its a definitive fact, I am saying what is more likely to happen based on evidence the show has provided, namely the current course of events, the greater plot itself, and the various tropes Merry employs in their writing. I am perfectly fine with being wrong, so long as it makes sense. A war narrative at this point in the story doesn't make sense.

You stated unequivocally and without any hedging whatsoever that it was not going to happen. It was not presented as your opinion either. What I said is the story would become predictable and repetitive, which it would. Some people may still find it interesting, the fights may still be good, and there may be plenty of fun humor, but a plot that becomes predictable and repetitive will make it overall less interesting.

This is fiction. The inside perspective is all that matters if that is the core of the narrative. If the outsider perspective doesn't matter to the narrative, it doesn't matter to the story. Since most of the cast aren't invested in war, war doesn't matter, and it would only really matter if it impacted the story in a way that makes sense and affects the narrative overall. So a war is declared between Atlas and Vacuo? Then what? What does it ultimately matter to the mission of securing the relics when the protagonists aren't in the Atlesian Military, nor are residents of Vacuo? What does it matter to the villains if their only goal is getting the Relics, when a war would probably make things harder for them since constant fighting means the kingdoms are harder to access, and history has demonstrated they'll still unite to fight the Grimm.

War distracts them, divides them, and spreads out their forces. If you remember, the story of the Great War was that the Grimm took advantage and the Kingdoms, Mistral especially, lost a lot of territory to the Grimm when they were so busy fighting each other. Atlas, in particular, is much harder to do anything about when almost their entire military power is standing guard. We just saw Cordovin take out a massive Grimm with a mech that had already lost an arm. Sure, it was immobilized, but there is no reason to believe she couldn't have taken it out without that being necessary. If they have more of those, in addition to their fleet, then any Grimm attack would have to be truly gargantuan to be able to penetrate the defenses of Atlas.

4. That wasn't my argument. Of course we know other teams went to Vacuo.

You specifically singled out my comments that were only about people going to Shade and expressly cast doubt on that.

My argument was that them going to Vacuo does nothing to change how their Kingdom ultimately works. Neither CFVY nor SSSN went to Shade with the intent of warning them so that what happened at Beacon and Haven doesn't happen again. CFVY went to finish their studies. SSSN went so Sun could try and be a better leader for his team, and finish their studies. Their is nothing to suggest them going is going to make Vacuo suddenly centralize enough in the event a war was brewing.

Everyone in Vacuo knows about the fall of Beacon and the attack on Haven would be something pretty much every student from there would be talking about. I mean, people are gonna wonder why there is an influx of folks from Mistral. Any leader worth their salt is going to understand the threat of potentially coming under attack and take steps to make that less possible. Shade would have a lot more strength with the influx of people and a compelling reason to get the various groups in Vacuo to work together. I am not suggesting it would suddenly be a centralized government under the council. What I am suggesting is Shade would use their growing strength to bring various groups into line and have them agree to work towards a common purpose of protecting Vacuo should a war happen.

5. Except Ruby herself they already assume is in Atlas. If they are being made to kidnap Ruby, they'd need to attack Atlas, and if they're already attacking Atlas, why wouldn't they just try to get the other relic right then and there?!

If the previous instances are any indication, getting to the Relics is no simple task and requires entering the Academy, finding a passage under the Academy, and then having a Maiden to open the Vault holding the Relic. Grabbing a single person, who is not necessarily going to be in the Academy, is not as difficult a task.

6. It wasn't just because of Ruby's eyes they won Beacon. They won the moment Cinder killed Ozpin. Glynda wasn't able to fight off the Grimm on her own, Ironwood had to retreat to Atlas, Beacon Tower fell, and they had the Fall Maiden Powers. The only thing Ruby did was detrimental to their plans by means of scaring Cinder, and even then that was barely anything, since petrifying the Wyvern may have stopped it from moving, but didn't stop it from attracting more Grimm.

The point is that none of that would work with Atlas. It isn't enough to simple take the Academy or kill a leader.

And expecting Ironwood to update his firewall is a little much when he didn't even bother to check Beacon Tower for bugs after Cinder infiltrated it.

Now you are just coming up with weak rationalizations. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. If Ironwood learned nothing from the events of Vale about keeping up their cybersecurity and no one else thought to bring up the need then that makes the characters look implausibly incompetent.

Even then, its not exactly the same.

Exactly the same was the plan for Haven compared to Beacon, simply without the Atlas factor. Have the White Fang attack and cause panic over them, destroy the tower, get the maiden, get the relic, Academy is destroyed. But that plan failed. So Salem has altered the Plan. She's getting involved herself, she's modifying Grimm to better suit the enviroment, she's preparing to attack without giving them the opportunity to rest. Haven just happened three weeks ago, and Atlas is next.

It is not exactly the same, but it closely follows a repetitive formula seen with Beacon and Haven. They infiltrate, they gain illicit access, they use said access for propaganda purposes and to weaken defenses, they attack with a sizable force, they gain Maiden powers or gain the Maiden's cooperation, and they try to find the Relic while the attack is distracting their enemy. What you are suggesting is closely following that same damn formula.