Board Thread:Speculation House/@comment-34633327-20171002160810/@comment-34633327-20171031231209

Soarel wrote: Did you. Even. Read. My. Pastebin? Please go look through it. There is a lot of evidence in the dialogue and their actions as well.

You clearly are looking at this with confirmation bias because you WANT things to be bland and black and white. I have read it. And it is wrong. For proof I did, here are some excerpts with responses.

"The RWBY fandom, for everything good that’s come out of it, seems almost completely averse to doing any form of deeper analysis of the show. " Are you serious here? The fandom is known for analyzing and overanalyzing pretty much everything.

" But aside from these exceptions, RWBY’s soundtrack is canonical. "   You list three being the exceptions, except there is a fourth: BMBLB, which is confirmed Non-Canon.

" She views these academies as brainwashing camps misleading the people of Remnant into becoming sacrifices for a plan they don’t understand. " Nowhere in Sacrifice is anything said that implies the academies are believed to be camps, and nowhere does Cinder imply this in show.

" Cinder does not “just want power”. If she “just wanted power”, why would she put so much effort into making Ozpin look bad and humilating him publicly? " I wonder if you and I are watching the same show. Because some of the first lines out of Cinder's mouth in Beginning of the End are " ''I want to be strong. 'I want to be feared. 'I want to be powerful." ''No she doesn't want power for the sake of power, but she does want power. And she made Ozpin look bad per Salem's instruction. In the same episode, this was heard:

" The Huntsman severed the connection before it was complete. ( pause ) Yes. It's... an emptiness. It burns. Like hunger. I like it. ( pause ) Yes. I will claim what is ours. ( pause ) Thank you."

So she was already reporting to someone when her motivations were revealed.

" Back as early as Vol 2, Cinder explicitly said that “It's not about overpowering the enemy. It's about taking away what power they have. And we will, in time.” This refers to seizing the reins of power from Ozpin’s cabal rather than simply becoming more powerful herself, something which is plainly obvious in the context of her character. " Incorrect. The context wasn't about the so called "cabal". The context was reffering to Pyrrha. Just before that line was

Mercury :  You  should be able to take her no problem.

You misattributed the context to fit  your confirmation bias.

"Earlier in that episode, Cinder told Emerald that she would “question everything she knew”. This is Cinder opening her eyes to the truth about Remnant and the Hunter Academy system. "  Again, you are misattributing the context. The full line set is

Cinder : ( as monstrous growling is heard in the background )   You will question everything you know.

Emerald: This is impossible.

There is a sound similar to something vanishing in a puff of smoke, and the growling instantly stops.

 Seeing as Cinder was controlling the Grimm Dragon later, the implication is she was showing Emerald she could control a Grimm, a creature thought to be a merciless manslayer, before suddenly killing it.

 " While many dismiss this as simply her trying to cause a panic so the Grimm would invade, given that the beliefs she states in this speech are nigh identical to both her statements in her image songs, as well as the things she’s said and others have said about her. " There is no confirmation that either Divide nor Sacrifice are her Image Songs, so this argument is baseless from the get go.

 " Sacrifice is the place I direct those who deny Cinder’s motivations to first, and for good reason. It’s her main image song, and is the most explicit about her in particular. The amount of confusion about this song is near legendary. Many people believe it’s about Raven, or is from Cinder’s perspective but directed at Salem for some reason. This isn’t helped by the fact that various youtube music uploaders have used misleading images, such as fanart of Pyrrha, to adorn it. Sacrifice directly samples a leitmotif heard on the series’ score and referred to by the composer Alex Abraham as “Cinder’s theme”. This leitmotif plays whenever she’s on screen. " Once again this is speculation, with no direct confirmation. And "Cinder's Theme" you can only make out if you isolate it from the beginning notes, her theme not being very uniqie to begin with. You even say its her theme with just a drumline, and what is it then, simple piano keys. A very generic sound cluster.

 " Finally we have Divide. While this song is Salem’s theme, her and Cinder have nigh-identical beliefs. " This is another base generalization/assumption. If you pay attention, Cinder and Salem have similar beliefs, not Identical. Take this line from Dread in the Air. Cinder : I don’t understand. Working with bandits? Keeping Ruby alive? What’s the point? We’re strong enough to take what we want by force!

Salem: Never underestimate the usefulness of others. Take Leonardo; he was one of Ozpin’s most trusted, and yet now…

<p style="font-weight:normal;font-size:14px;"> While you may attribute this to Cinder being a hypocrite, it actually falls in line with what she said. She believes in stripping foes of their power instead of overpowering, and she finds Ruby and the Bandits have no power against them, so their is nothing to strip. Salem however sees this like a game of chess. One is a manipulator, the other is a strategist. While they may seems similar, their is a difference. Salem, the manipulator, sees the value in each individual person or chess piece, and uses it accordingly. Cinder, the strategist, focuses more on the long term goal and is willing to make sacrifices to achieve it. Even the breach Cinder wasn't too upset about since it still would help them in the long run. Let's use a Pawn Piece for an example. The Manipulator sees the value in the pawn, that with Promotion, the Pawn becomes more than what it is, and can deceive the enemy into thinking little of it. The strategist sees the pawn as a sacrficial piece, made to distract the opponent while they make a bigger move. This is reflective in how they operate too. How did Cinder recruit Adam and Roman? By threatening them. How does Salem gather the attention of Cinder, offering her power and making her feel like she is more.

<p style="font-weight:normal;font-size:14px;"> " <span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Consolas,Menlo,Monaco,"LucidaConsole","LiberationMono","DejaVuSansMono","BitstreamVeraSansMono",monospace,serif;font-size:12px;font-weight:normal;">Finally, we’ll discuss one final song. It really puts the head-in-the-sand nature of the fandom in perspective when Ruby Rose herself, the aformentioned girl with the messiah complex, is more willing to question Ozpin and look deeper at the show than the fanbase is. " Again, this is a misconception. The song "Time to Say Goodbye" is never attributed to Ruby herself, and it is an assumption that it is about her. To be precise, the song has things that argue against it being about Ruby. One of the recurring themes of the song is the loss of Innocence and growing up. Except at the time of airing, Ruby still maintained her innocence, and her childishness. Her "Simple, Honest Soul" was still innocent. The only time it really lost that innocence is at Volume 3's end.

<p style="font-weight:normal;font-size:14px;">Your arguments lack evidence that can't be thoroughly picked apart. The only reason I didn't put pieces from your Divide analysis is that the basis is Divide is for Cinder, despite the fact it is Salem's song, as it is her Leitmotif.

<p style="font-weight:normal;font-size:14px;">Also, no matter how many times you say Salem is a poor replacement for Cinder, that is untrue, if anything, Cinder is the replacement for Salem, as Salem was one of the first characters conceptualized.