Board Thread:Episode Discussion/@comment-4010415-20170717151617/@comment-25936766-20170723212614

The Devil&#039;s Advocate WP wrote: 1) Really, I think you two, Someone and Ark, are missing the most important part of all this: every time it comes back to her not wanting to be around Jacques.

2) When discussing this before, I suggested it was gaslighting and considering the lyrics of this latest song as well as the various other songs for Weiss, it really does fit. 1: But you're missing a part of our argument, or at least mine's: We're not ignoring that.

Jacques is abusive, controlling, etc. But, my point was that her events in V4, especially the accidental almost-manslaughter, were, at least partially, Weiss's fault, and pinning the whole blame on Jacques while ignoring Weiss's own part in what happened is no better than what you're accusing us of doing.

Miles and Kerry were likely trying to make Weiss feel like "victim of abuse rebelling against the monster". But the way they did it didn't send such a message so uniformly, it didn't make her feel so sympathetic, for the reasons Terminus said pretty much.

For starters, most of Jacques's actions, even if extreme or harsh, have a valid justification, while Weiss herself isn't entirely sympathetic in her actions.

1) He grabbed her wrist harshly during the party, yes, and that in itself is bad, but he grabbed her after Weiss started yelling at the guests out of nowhere. And while she lambasted the guests, it was only based on 1 apathetic guy being uncaring and 1 unsympathetic bitch being uncaring, 2 people in a room with dozens of people.

You don't insult a group based solely on a pair, that's childish and irrational. As future CEO of the SDC, she'd be expected to not be childish and irrational like that.

2) She almost injured/killed said unsympathetic bitch by accident. This in itself would be forgivable, but what is not sympathetic is the fact that Weiss does not even try to reflect on her actions, or even expresses some bit of shame or responsibility over what she almost did in her fit of rage.

Anyone could almost injure/kill someone else by accident in a moment of anger, sure. But if they afterwards doesn't even seem to care about what they almost did, they aren't really asking for sympathy from the audience. Hell, if we didn't know better, Weiss would've looked like a sociopath.

3) As if not reflecting upon her actions at all was not enough, first thing she does is demand to be allowed to leave Atlas. And that is why she felt like a spoiled brat, because she, instead of reflecting upon the fact that she could've killed someone, demanded to be given what she wanted.

Does she have her reasons to want to leave? Yes, very yes. But that's besides my point. She doesn't care about what she did, she doesn't care about the consequences, even though she almost killed someone. She simply demands to get what she wants instead. And then:

4) When Jacques does what any reasonable parent would've done and doesn't give her what she wants because of everything she had done along with her lack of guilt, the first thing Weiss does is insult him personally. Considering all of this and the above, a single slap in the face was nothing, and multiple parents even see it as Weiss deserving it.

Then Jacques passes the inheritance of the company, to Whitley. Now, he does this via a lie to preserve PR, which is bad, but aside from the lie, his decision was rational: Given everything Weiss had done, giving her a company of the SDC's size and power, would be a horrible idea.

Historically, giving big and powerful companies like the SDC to the oldest available kid, without regard for their attitude or emotional problems, only creates problems sooner or later.

Weiss lambasts dozens of guests over a single comment from 1 of them, then almost killed someone, didn't care, then demanded to be allowed to leave, and when not given the right, she resorts to personal insults. Is that the kind of person you want to inherit a company like the SDC? Whitley at least gives the impression of being rational and calm, which is what a CEO needs to be if they don't want their company to go to hell right away.

The worst part is, Jacques also has excuses for his attitude. Running a company of the SDC's caliber would already cause much stress. Now add the White Fang stealing shipments and killing friends and workers. The stress must be through the roof. And people are rarely nice when under so much stress. Now add 1 daughter going off to the army and another daughter being rebellious.

Overall, Weiss was supposed to be a sympathetic victim and Jacques an abusive monster, but the way it was shown, Weiss feels more like an apathetic brat who in any case is not fit to take over the company, while Jacques's shown actions have rational justifications for the most part and his harshness has an understandable excuse.

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2: True, your idea of gaslighting does fit a damn lot. The text alone provides an scenario that makes it miles easier to side with Weiss fully, and would've been miles better than what Miles and Kerry did there.

But it still does not excuse her actions, or at the least, not her apathy towards her actions.