Talk:Cinder Fall/@comment-28171999-20170718131326/@comment-71.175.63.159-20170719033720

@SYUTK  Actually, yes I do know what character development is. And no, It is not purely their changes in character as the story goes along. That's just one aspect or "path" if you will, in which character development can occur within a story. It's actually multi-fold. A character doesn't have to change much in personality or goal to be "well-developed". Because character development /is/ also what we're initially shown about a character vs what we learn about them later. I'll repeat. A character does not have to change drastically to be considered a well-developed character or experience character growth. That is a huge falsehood when it comes to story-telling. There are numerous well-developed characters whom, as their stories progress, don't actually change all that much. If you need me to give specific examples outside of RWBY I will, but at present I'm just going to devote my time to pointing out the additional flaws in the examples you've put here:

1) Ignoring the problem of trying to use soundtrack songs as "definitive canon", it was Summer that was "shattered" not Ruby, according to the lyrics.  Secondly, Jeff stated that that song is a musical interpretation of Ruby's reaction to the death of her mother.  It's her /reaction/ upon finding out about it.  Assuming that Summer died when Ruby was...let's say 4.  If you were 4 and your mother died, would you feel like everything you'd known had collapsed around you?  Would you be angry at your mother for leaving you behind?  Absolutely.  I have no doubt that Ruby was extremely upset and furious with her mother when she learned she'd died.  Yang even states as much in V2-6 (with the addition that she felt Ruby was still too young to get what was really going on, which makes sense given Ruby in RLRII seems to feel Summer died on purpose which...yeah).  But that was when she was 4 (or whatever age she was when Summer died). She's had at least 10 years to understand and come to terms with her mother's passing and mourn in her own way. If anything, the fact that she's no longer angry and upset at her mother's passing would be character development by your own definition. She's accepted it. Moved past it.

2)  You say we weren't shown her having any effects from it and then list 2 examples where we explicitly were?  How many more examples do you need?  We were outright shown that her sleep is troubled by what she went through.  We were outright shown that she's experiencing doubts about herself as a leader, as a person, and as a friend.  That's a complete 180 from the gung-ho "LET'S DO THE MISSION TEAM" leader of V1-3.  Again, by your definition, wouldn't that be character development?  And while I would need to do a full re-watch of V4 to crunch the exact numbers but Ruby is largely withdrawn throughout the entirety of V4.  You can see her get frustrated far more easily when it looks like she might have made a mistake (grossly underestimating how long it would take to get to Mistral) or when people she loves are in danger (Qrow's entire fight with Tyrian).  She actively maimed another person when in every other fight she's been in with a foe that was likely to take damage, she's used the non-blade side of her scythe to attack (Junior's goons, and the White Fang members on the train). Additionally, again in this case, time has passed. They've had time to mourn more explicitly and move forward. And people mourn in different ways to start with. It's made pretty obvious that she's internalizing a lot of her remaining grief.

3) Why would she when nobody will tell her anything about what that power entails or how it works?  Ozpin obviously knew about SEWs but he's dead/MIA so far as RNJR is aware.  Her father is in Patch and Taiyang can barely handle talking about Raven, do you think he'd want to talk about the power that likely led to his second love's death?  Much less encourage one of his daughters to use it when that would also make her a target (leaving aside the fact that she already is a target, I'm not saying that's the best choice on his part but it is completely believable).  And don't get me started on Qrow.   Qrow may or may not even have a full understanding of that power either, just that it exists and a basic idea of what it does, not how to actually use it.  And speaking of Qrow, before he joined up with him again, Ruby may have been under the impression that her SEW powers are supposed to be a secret either to protect the people with her, her uncle, herself, whoever.

Regardless, I find it absolutely in character that Ruby not only wouldn't talk about her SEW powers but would outright not give a flip about them if not want to talk about them. One of the first things we were outright shown at the beginning of the series about Ruby is that she doesn't want people to think she's special. It makes her uncomfotable. Unfortunately, she's been graced by the Remnant universe with one of the most special-y powers to ever special. Kinda sucks to be her, right? So why would she talk about them and  in doing so, bring even more attention to the fact that she's definitely not a normal girl with normal knees. It's absolutely in character for her.

I will agree that story-wise they could perhaps have revealed more about what SEW powers entail at this point in time, but I also have to recognize that certain information is simply not going to be revealed until pivotal plot moments instead of when it maybe would make more logical RL sense to. Because that's not an unheard of choice in story-telling. It keeps people coming back to watch to find out. If that's a method of story-telling you find unappealing that's fine, but it's not an invalid one and it certainly doesn't take away from Ruby's character. We'll get that reveal eventually.

I'll end this wall of text by stating once again that a character does not need to change drastically to undergo character development. Weiss's character has changed because that's part of what her story arc entails. She's lonely and frigid, therefore an integral part of her story arc is about her becoming less lonely and more outgoing/caring. Jaune's story arc is a zero-to-hero story so naturally his arc will entail him improving his combat. It'd make no sense for him to remain incompetent in battle when he so eagerly wants to prove himself to those around him. And of course he was the most visibly affected by Pyrrha's death, she was his partner. And yes, we learned more about Ren's background and history in V4, and even saw an extreme emotional side to him, but has his character actually changed drastically from what it was in V1? No. Because again, that's not the only way to promote character development. We, the audience, learned more about him, but so far as his personality is concerned? He's still pretty much the same chill, soft-spoken guy. And that's good! We don't need him to become another temperamental warrior or otherwise drastically change in personality, because again, that's not how character development always works. It's a method of it, but not the only one when it comes to story-telling. Ruby's story arc is not about becoming a more out-going person or catching up in skill level to the people around her, or avenging her parents and destroyed village. Her story arc, at its core, is about a simple girl who literally just wants to help people and do good, who doesn't want people to think she's special yet who continually finds herself in situations where she's marked as such and, worse, where she simply can't help everyone. And she's clearly struggling with that. Her key character aspects are her hope, and her courage, and her optimism. If people are expecting her to grow into a jaded, cynical, and constantly discouraged individual, I'm sorry but that's not what's going to happen. This isn't a "Break the Cutie" story. It's a story about keeping hope and moving forward and Ruby Rose is a veritable embodiment of that.