Board Thread:Speculation House/@comment-10390252-20141218201832/@comment-189.134.205.165-20150110185310

The Bespectacled Guy wrote:

DiegoAnime3000 wrote:

The Bespectacled Guy wrote:

189.134.205.165 wrote:

The Bespectacled Guy wrote:

DiegoAnime3000 wrote: To summarize: It's incorrect to think that Adam is the most likely winner basing on the fact that he has taken more enemies down, is older or a villain. But it is not incorrect to suggest that Sun would get his ass kicked because Adam has been demonstrated to be a superior fighter in pretty much every conceivable department. That's not true. We saw that Sun is very good at fighting without a weapon while adam depends entirely on it so in terms of hand to hand combat Sun is superior. Like diego said, if something like adam losing his weapon or sun disarming him somehow occurs during a fight between the two then adam would be the one getting his ass kicked. That's conjecture. We have no idea how good Adam is at hand-to-hand combat because we haven't seen him resort to it, but from what we have seen, he is noticeably superior to Sun in every other area. Ultimately, even if he couldn't use hand-to-hand to save his life, it wouldn't really matter in this scenario.

I cannot imagine a scenario where Adam somehow drops his weapon - he was shot in the face with a massive laser and still kept hold of it. And Sun wouldn't get the chance to disarm him, because of Adam's INSANE combat speed. Keep in mind, we've really only see Sun fight properly once, against Roman, who beat him to a stalemate and would likely have won if not for Blake's intervention. As much as I hate to use power-scaling, if Sun can't beat Roman, he isn't touching Adam. 1. That's right. We haven't seen it and so we haven't seen what Jaune's semblance might be. Saying that he can't win against Cardin despite we don't know his true abilities is wrong. Just because Adam looks strong doesn't mean he's a master at everything. Like how Weiss is also a master with Dust, Semblance and Aura but has no basis on hand to hand combat to the point that it can be considered her weakness. Yang might look like a boxing and kick boxing expert but we have seen that kick boxing is actually her weakness. Ruby is very strong but without her weapon, she has nothing. The way you're describing Adam makes him look invicinble but he's not. He might be older and has more experience but it doesn't make him invincible against any main character that it's not an adult. If that was true then you're basically saying that in RWBY: bad guys will always win because they're older, more experienced and simply look like they're better. It's the same as saying that Blake can't defeat Roman but turns out she could. With a little help from dust but she could.

2. Also, if you watch the Black Trailer, you can see that Adam might look faster but in reality, Adam and Blake move at the same speed. Adam's fighting style consists on drawing his sword at an incredible speed but it doesn't make him faster in terms of dodging and moving around. Also, Sun can shoot faster than Adam because his gun is a rifle that needs precision while Sun's guns are dual shotguns. This and the hand to hand combat shows that Adam doesn't beat Sun in every aspect of combat.

3. Maybe you can't imagine an scenario like that. But I also couldn't imagine that a character so quiet like Blake was so emotionally fragile to the point of revealing her biggest secret in the stupiest way possible: To counter an argument. Besides, if there is something really famous in any action anime and series is that it always looks like the hero can't beat the bad guy but at the end, she/he always does.

4. Also, if you really want to keep this discussion then make a "Sun vs Adam: Who would win?" Thread. 1. I don't see how anything I've said indicates that Adam is invincible. All I've said is that he's better than Sun at fighting and he took out a robot army.

Furthermore, your "weakness" argument is fairly flawed. You point out the different character's hindrances and how we don't know some character's powers, but ultimately it doesn't really affect this fight as far as we can see, since we have a fairly clear image of what Sun is capable of. When Sun fought Roman, Roman swung his cane and easily deflected Sun's attacks, using it like a sword (which, needless to say, is Adam's main weapon). We know what Sun's semblance is, but given that Adam has taken down multitudes of enemies in the past, I can't see him struggling with one or two shadow clones. Adam's semblance, on the other hand (or what we presume is his semblance), while needing time to charge, would prove absolutely devastating to Sun. If Sun were to attack Adam, and Adam allowed the blows to sink in to his sword, he could easily reflect the attacks back at Sun with aura-shattering potential.

In regards to Adam's weakness, I don't doubt that he has one, but even if Sun could exploit that, I simply don't think he would get the chance before Adam wiped the floor with him.

2. Combat speed and movement speed are more closely linked than one might suspect, and in terms of movement speed, Adam dominates even Blake. At around 1:30 in the Black Trailer, Adam fires his sword at a robot, then runs and catches it long before it would hit the ground. If you look at where Blake and Adam were positioned in relation to the robots, that's like 10m he just ran in less than a second of real time. Later on, at around 3:18, he saves Blake from the spider droid, running more than half of the length of the carriage in a similar amount of time.

Not that it matters, though, because Sun doesn't run around or dodge much while he fights, so Adam wouldn't need to either. Sun's battle against Roman and the White Fang mooks revealed that he likes to fight in close range of his opponent. And since, as you acknowledged, Adam can draw his sword at an incredible speed, Sun would get the crap beaten out of him at such a close range.

Moreover, even if Sun could shoot faster than Adam, Adam deflected fucking Gatling gun fire from the robots in the Black Trailer, so I don't see him struggling against a pair of gunchucks.

3. With all due respect, that's a pretty ridiculous example. Whether or not characters can perform acts unexpected of them is irrelevant to whether or not someone can keep hold of their weapon in a combat situation. Besides, if Sun could disarm Adam in a fight, why didn't he disarm Roman when they fought?

And yeah, like you said, it's common in anime and action films for the hero to always win. Great! Thing is, though, if Sun did win here, it would be a prime example of Plot Induced Stupidity (I provide a definition earlier on in the thread). As an example of PIS, the character of Deathstroke from DC Comics fought the Justice League and won, even though most of them are way, way more powerful than him. They lost because the plot required them to, not because they were weaker characters.

4. I really don't want to keep this discussion going. I originally only pointed out Adam's superiority to Sun as an aside. I thought it would be clear to anyone who's seen the trailers that what we've seen of Adam indicates that he's a much more capable fighter. 1. You say that you are not trying to make adam look invincible yet you dismiss any ideas about sun being stronger than adam at the slightest thing to the point you're claiming that because we don't know things like his hand ot hand combat then we can't get a conclusion but for some reason: adam is better than sun. Period. That was your answer.

And where did you get the idea that adam can use his semblance while moving? FOr all we've seen, adam needs to stand still while preparing his semblance and then using it. If adam can move while using his semblance then that pretty much means he can't use it against someone like sun therefor his semblance is useless against sun because adam would need sun to launch him an attack while he's prepare but given how fast the two are, i doubt either of them would have time to actually use their semblances meaning that the semblances won't make a difference in a battle between these two.

2. That is more like a special move than anything and it was also to show off. Similar to how weiss uses several spells in the white trailer that would be enough to end a lot of fights that she has lost in the volumes. Adam move fast in that scene but that doesn't mean he can move at the same speed everytime. After all, if that was the case then how come he had trouble dodging a lot of things like the laser of the spider droid? Adam is fast but not that fast and can't be as fast everytime. Also it means he moves fast but how does speed helps in a fight? What helps is reaction time and while adam can stop bullets, so can blake and sun so i don't see how that make adam a better figther than them?

3. so basically: adam is immune to tropes and is invincible again? yeah. good arguemnt dude.

4. With all due respect that sounds like a fan who is blinded by "he is the bad guy, he looks more badass and i like him better so he wins." I can't see your argument as more than that.