Talk:Raven Branwen/@comment-1446360-20180421151129/@comment-24018437-20180421191610

Jesus, and I thought the whole discussion regarding the hatred towards Cinder a while back was weird and annoying. This is, like, the opposite situation...Just weirder. And I still think there is a Raven waifu pillow involved...Which, by the way, I won't be surprised if it exists.

Like I said before, there is nothing wrong with defending a character you like, or or liking a character in general. I have done both plenty of times and I still do. But this is getting a bit to...personal. The fact that you don't have any good arguments to back up your claims just makes it worse. So far, most of your arguments come down to 'Raven was scared of Salem! She's just misunderstood, and she'll reform!'

Raven did a ton of bad shit, and not all of it was forced or motivated by her fear of Salem. She made those decisions and stood by them and defended them. Will she reform or redeem herself? Probably. I mean...Of course she'll get a redemption arc. But here's the thing: she hasn't redeemed herself YET. The closest thing that come's close is allowing Yang to take the Relic and saying 'sorry' after Yang gives her that speech, which she really deserved. I'm still baffled you feel sorry for her during that speech, seeing how Raven needed to hear it and that it was fully justified. A speech that contained the harsh truth is probably the least of all the bad things she deserved at that moment. Raven wasn't, and has never been, the victim in that situation, or anywhere in the previous volume.

Raven needs to be knocked of her high horse before she can get up again as a different person. She isn't that different person yet, but you act as if all character development has already happened and she's suddenly a completely different person that decided to change her entire personality and mindset within seconds. Which she ISN'T. She said sorry...Well, OK, good for her. It doesn't make anything better or excuses her actions. She will need to work HARD before anyone will be able to trust or forgive her. I've known people like Raven IRL (not murderous bandits, but more along the lines of backstabbing, manipulative family members who feel like everything should go their way and only think of others when it suits them) and let me tell you, its hard to forgive them. Heck, I still haven't forgiven them and I doubt I ever will. If Raven wants forgiveness, she needs to EARN it. And you act like everyone should just feel sorry for her and give it to her, despite all she's done.

Also...I'm gonna brutally honest here, this is getting kinda sad. And pathetic. And just a little bit creepy. And defenitely annoying. Like pretty much everyone, including myself, has pointed out, SHE IS A FICTIONAL CHARACTER!