Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-2601:603:4F00:C360:84C3:164:CC2E:30E1-20200128221549/@comment-24018437-20200209221415

I do have to point out that though that Salem and her croonies weren't actually all that often the main antagonists as people think in terms of encouters.

In volume 4, they encouter Tyrian. While Tyrian loses, at the same time, they don't really gain much with this victory. In volume 5, Salem does lose. In volume 6, they're nowhere to be found. In volume 7...Well, sure, RWBY escaped Ace-Ops. But considering Salem has arrived, that's a small victory in the grand scheme of things. Especially because Ace-Ops is just gonna get up again, and Ironwood is still around to.

So only volume 5 was a major victory for RWBY and Co. Now, let's compare that to the previous volumes. In volume 1, they managed to stop one of Roman's plans, only for it later to be revealed he already had plenty of Dust. While they were victorious that night, it didn't really matter all that much in the grand scheme of things. Same when they encoutered Roman again during the White Fang rally, or when Ruby faced Cinder. Roman lost his mech, and that's about all that happened. And Cinder was, as far as I recall, successfull in planting the virus. So that's one win that didn't mean much and one loss. The season 2 finale may seem as a win, but at the end of the day, the Grimm still invaded and Salem's plans weren't stopped. They were sped up. And then we get the Fall of Beacon…

So while it may seem like RWBY and Co. have barely suffered, when you put things in context and compare to two of them, their only real major victory against Salem that had any major consequences was when they prevented the Fall of Haven. The rest of their victories were rather small or didn't mean much in the grand scheme of things. Hence my frustration with Ruby's speech to Qrow in volume 6. In the grand scheme of things, only preventing Haven's Fall was really that impressive and meaningfull.

Considering the Fall of Beacon was a win for the villains and Haven was one for the heroes, I'd personally like it if Atlas was a bit of both. Both sides do get some of what they want but not at all, but at the same time, they both lose something they wanted. For example, Atlas is saved, but at the cost of the Relics or vice versa, with Atlas being destroyed but the Relics are saved.