Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-25266931-20161128203912/@comment-5430952-20161129225516

SomeoneYouUsedToKnow wrote: Your english teacher may be proud, Alhazad, but my god, 9 paragraphs of 5+ lines each......that hurts the eyes.

1-You must have watched a different show. She never showed any inflated opinion of herself nor did she spit any bullshit. She only got even remotely mad when Qrow kept evading her question instead of answering it, and left when she figured he didn't know about the relic and with is desire to give no actual answers, it was a waste of time.

2-Assumption. For starters, since we don't know anything about the tribe or how they raised them, for all we know the whole Social Darwinism idea is just Raven's, not something inherent in the tribe. Second of all, Social Darwinism doesn't mean emotions=weakness. Maybe fear and sadness, but not all emotions.

3-......One thing you missed in that whole text: If Raven actually felt all that, she would have not gone back to the tribe and fully-abandoned her friends and family, including regarding their war against Salem.

4-Bullshit. Being an ass doesn't mean you won't last. What a Hunter must be, is skilled, smart and strong. That is all. As long as she was, she would last. You think Hunters always work together? Working alone is an option.

5-Hahaha! Bullshit again, because: CRDL. Everyone knew how much they bullied Jaune and maybe other students. No teacher or even Ozpin himself even raised an eyebrow. Why? Because Hunters are going to fight monsters, if they cannot deal with a bully they're not going to deal with any Grimm worth it's weight.

So if Raven was an ass, no teacher, much less Ozpin himself, would call her out. Hell, if she was an ass I bet it was just being asocial, not being an actual asshole to everyone.

6-This point is irrelevant since this is about an "If" that would never have happened. Raven's not a savage idiot, she wouldn't cause some chaos unnecesarily, not even for being expelled. If she got expelled she would just go back to the tribe. Even the tribe kills for necesity, not to throw a tantrum.

7-Or they got drunk.

8-Bullshit. Read points 4 and 5.

9-For all we know, the tribe could try to make her join them. After all, Badass Mother (and Leader) --> Badass Daughter.

10-.....And yet you used many assumptions to argue that. The irony. Sorry, I wasn't trying to overwhelm you or anything, I just prefer to give an intelligent courteous response rather than: "4rk4nt0s 1s 4 h4t3r," that would just start a flame war, which is frowned upon on the wiki.

1. Really? Notice how quick she was to justify herself with her "I told you so," speech to Qrow about Beacon and Ozpin, then that whole spiel about "ensuring her people's survival," even though it'll be at the expense of everyone else in Anima. And notice how she bristles whenever her views are challenged. Not to mention how she tried evading the issue of how Shion was truly destroyed, she didn't want Qrow knowing the whole truth so she gave him a BS answer. That's why she ran away, to keep Qrow from learning too much and thus interfering with her agenda.

2. According to the Between Kingdoms WoR, bandits have been living like this for decades, long before Raven was even born. So I doubt she's the one steering them on their current path, she's just enforcing said path which they've followed for as long as they can remember. And a band that only values strength has little use for anything else, essenrially they're scarcely above animals, even the WF is better behaved and more evolved than them. The irony of it all.

3. Clearly she didn't feel it strong enough to break free of the tribe, she lacked Qrow's courage in this regard. She may have realized it, though even if she knew it was true, she still disregarded it and returned to her old life.

4. Ozpin preached the importance of teamwork from day one, and students don't go solo until they graduate when they're fully recognized as Huntsmen. And it's more than being an a**, it's blatantly defying everything she's being taught for the sake of her own ideals. Oh yes, I could see her preaching her "survival of the fittest" mantra in class, much to the displeasure of the students and teachers.

As for her being strong, skilled, and smart, I can agree with the first two points but the third is questionable, especially since I highly doubt basic literary skills are required in the tribe. So she and Qrow might've been illiterate upon entering the schoool, though Raven of course felt she didn't need such "useless skills," only strength. Though that attitude would not get her far in Beacon, or in modern society for that matter. As I said earlier, not changing was not an option.

5. Yet Team CRDL didn't have the same mindset as Raven, they knew how to function in modern society, and had a stronger moral backbone than she or her tribesmen did, the irony of it all. There's no doubt they're bullies, but they're definitely not depraved barbarians who are all but completely devoid of humanity. Big difference.

6. That's a matter of opinion, she's way too thin-skinned for her own good, and if she got kicked out she would not take it well at all. I could see her wreaking havoc against Beacon and a society she didn't want to understand, though that would end very badly for her if she chose that path. Fortuantely, for everyone's sakes, it didn't come to that.

7. If that's what revealed in story, it'll be pointless to deny it then. Though I'm leaning more towards the bright side unless the story shows otherwise.

8. No, change is not optional in order to survive in modern society, it's mandatory.  Trying to prove otherwise would be the biggest mistake of her life.

9. That depends on what she's told them of Yang, if anything at all. For all we know she's said nothing to her "family," so they'll be none the wiser until Yang makes herself known in Volume 5 or 6, whenever she arrives in Anima.

10. They're not assumptions, "adapt or perish" and "actions have consequences" are the rules of the world, going against them will get Raven burned sooner or later, if not killed if she isn't careful. WC-83 wrote: It is a mystery on why she left. First of all Alhazad, that is a very detailed theory, but it sounds a bit fanficy and presumptuous. I personally think it's either she had a crisis of identity when she was pregnant with Yang or she was afraid of hurting either of them. Hrm, maybe you're right, maybe she didn't want Yang to grow up just like her, hence she left her in Tai's care because she'd be much safer than in the plains of Anima, and she wouldn't have to worry about getting any innocent blood on her hands, something Raven knew was much too late for herself. And I daresay she didn't want to hurt the tribe either, hence she said nothing of her life in Vale, though of course she had to promise she'd "bring her stubborn brother back to his senses," lest they try hunting him down for desertion. I can see Raven and Qrow covering for each other so they're not hunted down by those seeking vengeance, retribution, justice, or whatnot. So she tried to appease everyone by leaving, though she knew Tai would've been heartbroken at her loss, she probably felt she had no choice, that it would be "best for everyone." Very tragic that she could not trust Tai more, and she won't realize how much she hurt him unless he himself comes to Anima and confronts her. Whether it actually happens, remains to be seen.

Arkantos95 wrote: @Al She doesn't have to be a complete monster to not give a shit about anyone outside the tribe. She's focused on keeping her people safe and happy, and if others have to suffer, so be it. And the tribe aren't a bunch of sadistic psychopaths that kill and pillage for the sake of murdering and pillaging. It's a survival thing. They don't only care about themselves, they just only care about each other.

And sweet Jesus the number of assumptions about life and about Raven as a character that have to be made for that "theory" to stand is ridiculous and some of them, as STYUK pointed out, are straight-up bullshit.

And will someone please explain to me how a tribe, a type of community that tends to rely on its own members for population growth, would view a woman with a child as a weakness and not a resource? I mean, there's obvious strength in numbers and Raven probably would've been one of the strongest fighters, so her daughter would've had obvious potential. It doesn't matter if she had it with someone outside the tribe, they're not a freaking cult. The problem she's been taught better than this at Beacon, so she can't say she's never known anything else besides "survival of the fittest." And if she does then it wouldn't be the first lie she's spoken. She's lived better than that, regardless of whether she admits it or not, so she'll be the one who gets it the most for betraying everything she was taught as a Huntress. I just don't understand how you can suggest everything she experienced outside the tribe didn't change her, it's not like she lived under a rock the whole time. And it's not an assumption that she would have to change in order to make it in Beacon, it's a fact. As I told SYUTK, not changing was not an option.

As for population growth, that's only if they even do, for all we know they could "recruit" new members from villages they ransack, if they hate weakness as much as I think they do then they wouldn't have time for "nonsense" like child bearing and raising, survival is all that counts. But we'll see. 73.Anon.52 wrote:

1.  As Arkantos said, assumptions are bad

@Alhazad: First off, as Someone said, that is a lot of assumptions, and at least some of them are bullshit

2. No guilt, does not equal "Complete Monster" while she certainly hasn't lived the life of a saint, she has a sense of duty to her "FAMILY", which she has been clear(for now) does not include Yang.

3. No one has made an assertion of "Complete Monster" except those of you who think she should feel guilt. Guilt(or lack of it) do not make a human character, mistakes do.

We can all admit she's made mistakes, but for some reason or other Raven can not, will not or does not agree "in universe". She doesn't have to recognize this to not be a complete monster. 1. It's as assumption to believe that Raven could not do as she pleased while she attended Beacon? That's not an assumption, that's a fact. If Raven stubbornly refused to follow the academy's rules she would not have lasted her first year, let alone graduated. So she had to conform to academy law in order to survive, thinking she could do otherwise is outright foolishness.

2. Even though said sense of duty invovles murdering other families for what they have, something I can see Yang calling her on once she finds her later on. And we've seen how Raven reacts whenever she or her views are challenged, so it won't be pretty by any means.

3. No, but some are saying that felt nothing about deserting Yang and Tai, so I question why she'd even let him get that close to her if she felt nothing for him? And the only way I could see that being possible was if she killed her own heart, but if she did then there would truly be no hope for her. Just like KNN005, I hate shallow characters too. We already have one in Cinder, we don't need another.