Thread:GreyStark/@comment-28288412-20170506220152/@comment-25936766-20170508125816

GreyStark wrote: 1-Someone, don't you act like a condescending asshole

2- Now correct me if I'm wrong here but I think that even with their limited scientific knowledge, then they knew that people who get crucified stay dead,

3- So a guy with holes in his hands, his feet and in his side (because that's how the risen Jesus appeared to the disciples) and convinced those men, who had spent years with Jesus (and Jesus's own brother) that he was Jesus

4- Just what fuck. Seriously, I'm lose some respect for you myself. People can make up memories sure. But all about the exact same thing, at the exact same time, about the exact same person.

4.5-As for the bear thing. If it was written down (a modern equivalent would be me bringing you a newspaper article staying vaccines cause autism ) possibly, but heres the thing. But if you pointed at an ordinary bear and said it they think you were an idiot.

5- His body disappeared. The Jewish authorities sealed the tomb. Imprinted a seal in wax say that if you broke the seal you'd be an enemy of Rome. And it was guarded by Roman soldiers who would have been executed if they had failed. Plus there was a two ton rock sealing the tomb. So how would the guards not notice people moving it.

6- If eye witnesses aren't evidence then what exactly counts then?

6.1-And lack of science isn't the excuse you think it is

6.2-And apart from anything else fake memories take years to develop.

6.3-People don't come back from the dead. We've known that about as long has we've been around.

7- Who would have had the motivation to claim to be Jesus, to his followers? Jesus had been executed, that meant to his followers that he was a fake. And it wasn't a false memory of Jesus because that shit takes years to develop. 8- If eyewitnesses mean nothing then ho can you trust anything? 1-Yes I do, why do you ask? jk, I know what you're trying to say, but I'm not being deliberately condescending. I'm being deliberately critical. If your arguments are faulty IMO, I'm going to say so.

2-See, here you go again. Read what I said about how impressionable people were back then. There are multiple ways to explain how this guy that got Crucified "came back from the dead".

The simplest answer is that when he was Crucified he lost consciousness instead of actually dying (yet), and everyone simply assumed he died because his body went limp and he didn't respond. Then he woke up later, and "OH MY GOD HE REVIVED!!!".

Crucifixion is not an executional technique, is a punishment. Victims are simply left to die, and while there are multiple ways you can die during one, a victim can survive from hours to even days. Jesus himself supposedly "died" only about 6 hours into the Crucifixion. Sure, he was speared by the side afterwards, but you won't die of blood loss if the spear covers the orifices, and if it avoids important organs then it won't be necesarily lethal.

3-Did he convince them? Or did they convince him? Back in ancient times, if someone was supposedly a god or anything of similar importance, they would, at least eventually, think it was factually. If you told someone they were "Jesus, King of the Jews" often enough, through forceful suggestion combined with the other factors present in this age, they would eventually believe it.

Sometimes the followers make the king, and not the other way around.

4-Yes. Yes, Grey, yes. Such a thing can happen, it happens nowadays even with all the skeptics, it happened far more 2000+ years ago where the everyman was gullible as hell.

4.5-If all I do is point at a normal bear and say that that bear is Jupiter reincarnated, then they would check it then probably say I'm an idiot. But what if I do more than just point at a bear? Like writing a tale about it.

Mythology was treated as history in ancient times even before Jesus. People couldn't tell fiction from facts. If it was written in one big book or piece of rock they would think at least part of it happened, at the least.

Which leads me to a question: When was the Bible made, exactly?

5-Mmmmmm.....so the "Jewish authorities" were the ones who sealed the tomb........first I'm going to raise the question of "what if the soldiers died, eventually?" X and Y were guarding the tomb, died someday somehow. People could move the rock and take Jesus's body. The soldiers didn't notice because info traveled very slowly back then (part of the reason Rome kinda crumbled), it could take days or even weeks for the rest to find out X and Y died. And to the everyman, all soldiers look the same.

And now here's my other possibility: What if his body wasn't actually in that tomb? A trick, basically. His actual body wasn't placed inside the tomb before it got locked. But the soldiers believed it was. So when his actual body, actually outside the tomb, turns out to not be inside the tomb, the soldiers would think that "it vanished".

6-Eyewitnesses are evidence, but not concrete evidence. Modern eyewitnesses can Lie, can Be Wrong about things, or can be victims of Confabulations. Eyewitnesses from 2000+ years ago, where everyone believed just about anything they were told, where everyone was very gullible and impresionable that they gave some long, poetic religious explanation for just about anything? Come on, water is more solid than that.

6.1-Yes it is. Lack of scientific explanations for just about everything, plus the heavy religious influence in the era, meant that everything had a long religious justification.

In this case, if they saw someone who looked like Jesus, after Jesus's death, they would think Jesus revived, recorded it in text, and that's what would be passed through history, not questioned at all because Christianity in general had a severe influence over the western world for more than 1000 years.

6.2-No they don't. If you bothered to do the research you would see how they can be formed in less than a month, even less than a week with forceful suggestion. We don't remember most of what we exactly do in a day, Grey, our memories has more holes than the moon has craters. Under adrenaline rush, confabulations can form almost inmediately.

There are videos that show it around the internet. For example, I found one years ago (don't have the link now though) of a (black) policewoman who practically assaulted a guy after he supposedly called her a nigger. Then she was shown a video that showed the guy never said anything, and she couldn't believe it. There are other examples elsewhere.

6.3-Except where religion is involved. Especially things written down milleniums ago.

7-Read points 3 and 6.2.

8-Eyewitnesses are not 100% reliable, but they work as evidence. But like I said, eyewitnesses from 2000+ years ago are, on the other hand, 100% unreliable by themselves.

Then, who can you trust? ....You don't.