Board Thread:Speculation House/@comment-27143816-20160216033644/@comment-14909251-20160614233818

SomeoneYouUsedToKnow wrote: 1-But consider: Salem. She's aware of the Maidens, their powers, and has the means to take said powers. Thus, considering Ozpin, it would be stupid of him to put the Maidens in places with Grimm. Best case scenario, she dies and they have to find the new Maiden and re-train her. Worst case, Beginning of the End happens. Of course, Ozpin's plan to deal with Salem was pretty much doing nothing, so perhaps allowing something so stupid would be expected of him.

This assumes Ozpin and the brotherhood had even the slightest suspicion that Maiden powers could be stolen. It had never happened before as they noted. Had they known about it beforehand then they probably would handle the Maidens differently, but they appeared to be legitimately shocked that this was possible.

2-Qrow was nearby, wasn't he? Now, for why he arrived so late, wild guess. Maybe he had a hangover? Was alerted late? Cinder sent a distraction? Perhaps she was the distraction? We'll never know.

Qrow came from a completely different direction. He may have been intended to meet up with her upon her return, but we have nothing to suggest he was traveling with her or monitoring her.

3-Amber going to/returning from a village near Vale seems reasonable enough, at least for me right now. Doesn't mean she was a Huntress/on a mission/used to fighting Grimm however.

It makes more sense for them to ambush her in a situation where they are least likely to be interrupted and where she would be least on guard. Presumably, it is within walking distance of Forever Fall forest since Cinder and crew travel there before and after their encounter with Amber. Based on the map Roman had and Emerald's expressed lack of familiarity with Vale then it is most likely the case that Amber was ambushed outside the city and she was coming from a mountainous area, meaning that she was not heading out of the city, but heading towards it at best.

4-Depends on how much strength she has when she "wakes up". Also, while dealing with these dozens+ of weak mooks, she will also have to deal with the strong ones. And both make the other harder to deal with. Even escaping is difficult with the many Griffons flying around.

Hiding from airborne creatures is a little less complicated and becomes much easier upon reaching a forest area.

5-It's less a rookie mistake, and more a human mistake. Call it a habit. She's used to fighting Grimm alone, so she, when fighting Grimm, would initially try to fight them like she has always done. It's something normal, natural, and human. She may be a Huntress, but she's a human as well, excuse her for making human mistakes.

I don't think you can call it a human mistake. Being used to fighting alone might mean a person is bad at coordinating and does things that work against the partner's intentions, but it does not mean a person is going to jump in front of another person's attack. This is a matter of not really paying attention to what is going on around her, which is not a mistake that would normally be made by any experienced person.

6-I'm assuming she doesn't have great field experience because she's not a Huntress (assumption) thus she hasn't fought Grimm as much as one, nor has she gone to Grimm-filled areas as much as one. Ruby, meanwhile, has since even before the show began, and has only been gaining more experience since then (plus she was trained by Qrow). As such, it's not unreasonable to say that yes, Ruby has more field experience.

The issue is that you have no grounds for making the assumption about Amber not being a huntress or soldier nor for assuming that she would fight the Grimm less either way. It is also not a reasonable assumption as she exhibited fighting experience and her Maiden abilities would make her far too desirable as a weapon against the Grimm.

7-What makes you think she used Dust and Aura? I didn't see any being used. All I saw was Maiden powers and use of the staff to block attacks and push them back.

You are obviously assuming that the force field-style deflections were Maiden powers, but I don't see any reason to think that is the case. She also very obviously had a staff with Dust on it capable of generating wind and fire.

Reason she lost was because she grabbed the Idiot Ball (this woman shoots 3 arrows around you, they light up and look right about to explode. What do you do? Stand still, of course).

There were like two seconds between the arrows lighting up and them exploding, assuming that it was not canonically more like a second.

8-So you are assuming she's some sort of ninja, jumping from branch to branch?

Moving from branch to branch in a forest is not some mystical ability and it may not even require jumping, not that jumping from one tree to another requires any special powers either.

9-So you don't want us to necesarily agree, you just want us to stop expressing our disagreement because we use "nothing more than baseless assumptions", the same thing you are doing?

I don't think any suggestion I have made has been baseless. More importantly, I haven't treated any of my suggestions or assumptions as irrefutable facts when they are not.

Discussion about the implications of that theory? Where? Take me to them, they would certainly be more enjoyable than this exchange of berlin walls.

This literally started with me talking about the potential implications, but again there was just this obsessive desire by certain people to ignore all that in favor of arguing why it is oh so totally wrong.

10-Juuuuust a bit there. Do remember, people who are arrogant often deny/are ignorant of their arrogance.

Are you finished projecting yet?

11-Depends on the exact details. If she has Maiden powers, I say she can, if only by flying like Cinder did. If she doesn't have the Maiden powers, then her chances are more unbelievable. She has no weapon, no reason to assume she knows multiple weapon styles, was pretty reliant on her powers when things got remotely tough, and her little HtH skills won't be enough. If she isn't at full strength when waking up, even less likely.

Wait, did you just suggest that even with Maiden powers it would be impossible for her to escape unless she could fly? This is getting increasingly ridiculous as you clearly are imposing a far more hefty burden than is justified by everything we have seen in the series up to this point.

12-During Breach, there were Hunters in the city, they responded quickly, the Atlesian army intervened, and most Grimm were mooks. This time, it's pretty different, far more Grimm, less Hunters, no Atlesian support and no way of reaching out to them, whatever civ got out on the ships and didn't get killed was lucky. Given the previous point, her chances of escaping are questionable.

Maybe you don't get it, but there is not the slightest hint of civilian deaths even in this case. What we have seen from the Grimm indicates they are not so horrendously capable that anyone with decent training, experience, and ability, would have trouble getting away from them.

13-By Hunter standards.

By Hunter standards Mercury, Cinder, and Emerald are all individually exceptional yet Amber still proved quite capable of taking them on even without her Maiden powers. Obviously, those gave her a bit of an edge and had she not been taken by surprise it is unlikely they would have been able to subdue her, but the fact those three are so capable suggests Amber is also highly capable even without Maiden powers.

14-Defending herself, we know she can unless she's weakened.

Assuming she's weakened.

Being sneaky, maybe, I think she can be but not enough.

Baseless assumptions.

Keeping a cool head.....yeah, that's a baseless assumption.

Not at all. Anyone trained in combat is mentally trained as well as physically trained and part of that means being able to keep a cool head. She was generally cool-headed in the one fight we saw despite being ambushed, so it is not outlandish to suggest she could do it again.

15-By that logic, all Hunters should know all the techniques possible even if they don't fit their fighting styles at all. Here's the thing: Hunters, and similar, fight in the way that fits them best, that they are better at. Nothing says they should nor must learn any possible technique ever.

Amber doesn't need to know, nor does she necesarily know, how to do an Aura "Force Palm" like Ren does, for the same reason Ruby doesn't need to, Cinder doesn't need to, Glynda doesn't need to, Qrow doesn't need to, Weiss doesn't need to, Pyrrha doesn't need to, and Adam doesn't need to.

You are assuming a lot of things right here, but let us just acknowledge that being experienced and capable with Aura does not mean fighting exactly like Lie Ren. He illustrates what is possible when using Aura on its own, but that does not mean everyone has to use it the exact same way. In the case of Amber, they would want her and any other Maiden to rely on more than just the Maiden abilities as that maximizes the chance of survival. That means also knowing how to fight with Dust, Aura, and without any of it at all.

16-We know it took her Aura though.

No. We. Do. Not. How is it so hard for you to understand the difference between what we do know and what we don't know?

17-Cinder took the Maiden powers entirely. If anyone has any logical reason to have Amber's Soul inside them, it's Cinder. She would also have her powers available as well, an since Amber knows how to use them, escaping is more likely and much easier. Cinder wasn't even half as injured or weakened as Amber was either, and unlike Pyrrha, she still (possibly) has a body intact. She was also outside, so there's no need to answer questions like "how would she go up the elevator then?".

Maiden powers being attached to Aura does not immediately translate to Aura being attached to Maiden powers. No doubt it would easier for a Cimber to get away, but you have to cross the first hurdle of how Amber's Aura gets into Cinder.

Compared to Ambyrrha, even though Cimber does still rely on some assumptions, it makes more sense and sounds more reasonable.

The latter stems from a core assumption that is fundamentally unfounded, while the former stems from a fact we all know to be true. We know with absolute certainty that Pyrrha was receiving Amber's Aura before the transfer was interrupted. Not a single thing indicates Cinder received any of Amber's Aura. It's all assumption.