Board Thread:Episode Discussion/@comment-34633327-20180105193053/@comment-34633327-20180109022701

2001:8A0:D22D:9C01:B176:923C:A7D5:C341 wrote: KingFubuki92 wrote:

B) ..... Really? Maybe I misphrased it, but the point was he told it like that in the hopes it would prevent Oscar from sympathizing.

C) Nowhere is it said Hazel can't be stopped.

D) It's called despair.

E) I Before this episode, I did too. But after he overrided Oscar when he made clear he couldn't, I began having doubts, and on reconsideration, find more weight in Raven's claim. Qrow is blind in my opinion.

F)

3> Except her death would add nothing to the narrative. A character death should only occur if it provides for the narrative, or provides for character motivation. What would Vernal dying add? Just having Raven suffer. And no, it wouldn't add Raven joining the heroes, since she can just as easily do that if Vernal lives.

1. Because no one ever talks about the soul, they only ever talk about the Maiden Powers. 2. No, it would be bad storytelling if it wasn't a curbstomp battle. B)  I don't think he did it for Oscar not sympathize. What if Oscar did even more? Again, would he let Hazel kill him? Killing Oscar would punish him not Ozpin, since he's coming back to life either way.

C) Qrow didn't manage do anything to Hazel, so stopping Hazel will be pretty difficult.

D) I don't care about his despair, you are willing to kill hundreds, thousands, millions - then, I have no sympathy for the devil. If we all turned super evil if we had been through a tragedy, the world would be nothing but chaos and hell.

E) I don"t really remember .....

F)

2>  I didn't say Tai........

3> Also, you mention portals in a curbstomp battle and bird form? B) Remember what Hazel said to them though? He wants to kill Ozpin over and over again. And even killing Oscar may not kill Ozpin, it would be a major setback in the efforts to beat Salem. It took Ozpin several months just to reincarnate into Oscar, and another month just to get his body ready to fight. It would waste time they don't have. And even if Oscar wouldn't let Hazel kill him, the shock of the revelation would be able to distract Oscar long enough for Hazel to start beating him to death.

C) Qrow wasn't even really fighting Hazel though, Qrow was more focused on Leonardo, and keeping him from attacking Ozcar as he fought Hazel. When not fighting Leo, Qrow just kept getting Oscar out of the way, or taking the hits for him. We don't know if Qrow can hurt Hazel, as he never had the chance to.

D) You talk as if this world isn't already chaos and hell. What Hazel is doing is called being human. It's fucked up and no one will care to admit it, but ultimately, Hazel is letting his emotions control him and drive him down a dark path, just like any human would. People can deny it as much as they want to, but in the end, we, humanity, are beings of chaos, contradiction, emotion, and destruction. Hazel I like as a Villain, because he seems realistic to me, a man dominated by his emotions and broken, going down a path of darkness all to quiet his pain. People like Ruby, people that want the world to be a better place and think they can change it for the better, they are too optimistic. IMO, Optimism just builds your hopes up higher and higher, setting you up for a bigger fall.

E) It's the principle of the matter. Ozpin heavily expresses the neccessity of choice. Even in a situation as dire as Cinder finding Amber, he still wouldn't start the process until Pyrrha gave him her choice. Yet here, Oscar made a choice, and Ozpin overwrote it. Even if the intent of saving their lives was good, he broke the one trait he always had made before hand, everyone has a choice, and there is no shame in making that choice. He ignored Oscar's choice and hijacked him.

F)

2) I understand and respect your desire for Taiyang to have greater importance, but disagree. Just as I desire Vernal to remain and hold significance, and you disagree.

3) You forget, her portals allow her to port around anywhere there is a person she has formed a bond with, including Tai, Yang, Qrow.... and Vernal. Vernal is in the room, and with that, Raven can easily open a portal, jump in it, and pop out somewhere else in the room to strike Cinder off guard, like a demented game of whack a mole. The bird form is also quite useful too. Raven's bird form is relatively small, and the only maiden powers Cinder has demonstrated in her weakened state are Fire blasts, and solid freezing. To do either though, she still has to hit Raven. The bird form should be able to dodge the blasts easily with it's small stature and speed.

As for how knowing about the Grim Claw takes away Cinder's advantage, Raven knows exactly what it can do (Stretch and tear out a Maiden's Powers via impalement), and what to in turn avoid. She can easily dodge the arm, and if it can't stab her, Raven's powers are safe. Had Cinder kept the claw hidden, then Raven wouldn't expect it, and Cinder could have sprung it on her as a surprise, but that was ruined when Cinder used it on Vernal. In a sense, Vernal is the reason Raven can get past Cinder's claw.

Raven also has the advantage in knowing how Cinder's weapon works: She saw Cinder instantly form her sword when Jaune went to attack Cinder, and knows the weapons can easily dissolve after seeing Weiss get impaled. All of Cinder's tricks are out in the open and easily analyzable by Raven. And, as noted above, with it being more than a decade since Spring ran off, Raven could have more than 10 years of experience using the powers. Raven has this fight won easily.