Board Thread:Episode Discussion/@comment-14138255-20160214165601/@comment-14909251-20160218214711

LiveandSound wrote: 1-Being "idealized" or "considered perfect", are just traits. Take these Mary Sue traits like symptoms of a disease: You may show those symptoms and not have that disease, or have that disease but not those specific symptoms.

For example, the Ace is supposed to be perfect and idealized, but they aren't necesarily Mary Sues.

2-Pyrrha was designed as an MS from the start, who gets deconstructed later on. I'm saying that Ruby's display of unexpected powers far more powerful than even a Fall Maiden in Fall, plus out of nowhere, unexpectedly and suddenly, turning out to be from an ancient line of Ultra-Powerful warriors we've never heard before, puts her on the road to becoming a Canon Sue, with the only question being whether she truly becomes one or not. The Mary Sue trope is all about being idealized or perfect. It isn't the only necessary trait, but it is the critical trait for any Mary Sue to have in order to be a Mary Sue. Ruby notes she was "complete garbage" before being trained by one of the greatest warriors in Vale, her uncle Qrow. Even then she is not much better than her peers in combat and her upper-classman are often still better than her.

3-It's not a subversion of DEM if the actual DEM turns out to be different from what could have been expected yet is still a DEM through and through. If she unleashed Maiden powers instead it would have still been a Deus Ex Machina played straight. And arguably, would've made her feel less Mary Sueish since at least she wouldn't be a descendant of the previously-nonexistant Silver Order that's far more powerful than Maidens. Her unleashing Maiden powers would have been readily expected, hinted at, and not terribly surprising. A Deus Ex Machina is supposed to be something that just comes out of left field without any reason in the story to believe anything like that would happen. They were clearly trying to tease at her being a Maiden right up to the point when Qrow mentioned the silver eyes.