Talk:Raven Branwen/@comment-35819533-20180608184149/@comment-35819533-20180609015753

I get what you mean, but I still disagree. She isn't really as much of a coward as she is a conspirator. She does fear salem, but not enough to where she would forfit and sacrifice everything for her. I mean she was a spy for ozpin and was in risk of death her entire time as a huntress because of having such a major role in the war, especially with her becoming a maiden. In my eyes, a coward is someone who is willing to do anything and abandon everyone for her own survival. Raven isn't that kind of person. She tries to convince her friends and loved ones that they shouldn't be in this war and will save them if she is forced to. I believe when yang asked her if she set her up for an ambush because she knew she could get what she wanted, that raven telling yang "its not that simple, you don't know me" was not her blaming yang for abandoning her, but raven telling yang to not try and understand someone you have no experience with. Raven does dodge questions about her flaws, because she doesn't want people to see weakness in her, which is also why she subconsciously hides her feelings toward others. It was less of raven realizing that she was a coward and more of her being forced to realize that her own daughter sees her as weak and that her daughter was strong enough to admit her flaws. I also think her conversation with qrow was her trying to dodge the touchy subject because of a similar reason, but also because she wanted to get straight to the point and not loligag on what she sees as needless arguing. Raven wouldn't apologize to yang before she teleported away, because raven herself wouldn't do something to make her seem weaker purposefully. I think her apologizing to yang was raven apologizing for never considering yang and her feelings in their entire situation, which is a big problem raven has had as a character. Qrow is a different type of person than raven. Raven is a much more stubborn, hard to convince, and skeptical person than qrow. Qrow is very easygoing which would make him easy to convince about joining ozpin, whereas raven would stick to her beliefs until the end. Qrow also doesn't seem to believe in the bandit's cause as much as raven, which further would make him hard to convince. I also believe that she doesn't care as much for the people in the tribe, as much as she cares about the atmosphere and what the people believe in. There are exceptions such as vernal, but in her tribe raven is in her element. Everyone there has the same views as her which draws her to them. She wants everyone to have the same views as her which is shown by her interactions with qrow and yang. She stays with the tribe because she believes that their mentality is what will keep them alive, and she also believes that their ability to stay alive means that they won't try to constantly question raven and raven will be able to be herself around them. Her not defending her decisions by saying it was "for the good of the tribe" wasn't raven not caring imo. Raven never had any reason to go into deep conversation about that topic and even if she did she would try to avoid it in order to just get to the point of the conversation. If Raven cared so much for herself over the tribe she would have brought her entire tribe to haven  and she would have never killed the spring maiden in the first place and isntead would've gotten someone else to do it. Raven also didn't try to blame yang for their relationship. In fact, she didn't blame anyone. She saw it as natural and played it off like so. She believed that yang was strong and had earned the right to join raven and her tribe, not because raven thought that highly of herself but because raven believes that you have to work for everything you earn and she believed herself abandoning yang would make yang learn that lesson personally. This is also what raven's life has seemed to reflect. She had to go through a lot to earn the spot as ozpin's spy, she had to earn the spot as tribe leader, and she probably had to go through a lot of self loathing just to go back to her tribe. This is probably why she seemed so upset that yang wasn't trying to join her. She was appauled at the fact that yang did so much and got so far and ended up not even caring or appreciating it, because raven thinks that joining her tribe will basically equal survival and yang was turning it down. Yang turning her back on raven probably reminded her of her team and probably made her think that all that yang did to get to where she was meant nothing and that she was going to end up a pawn like qrow and tai did. Vernal's comment about yang and raven's response also go further into my point. Raven told vernal that yang "made her choice." She didn't say this because she didn't care but raven believed that yang fighting for ozpin would force yang to suffer and she would have to learn the hard way instead of the chance raven gave her to "learn the easy way." This is further supported by raven's choice that she gave yang and her reaction to it. Raven said that yang could either fight in the impossible war against salem and die or she could stay with raven and have everything raven thought yang would want with her including an explanation of everything. She was trying to manipulate yang into choosing the choice that she believed would end up saving her life. Raven's remarks after yang's respone also show raven's true intentions. If raven didn't care about yang she wouldn't have praddled on and said that she wouldn't "be as kind the next they met." She believed yang cared about her and saw her as a threat/person of value, but yang didn't care and told raven "she wasn't kind this time either." Raven then said "I know" which a look of confusion/disappointment. This makes me believe that raven saw this as a personal failure. In a last stitch attempt to prevent yang from joining ozpin she further drove yang to want to stay away from raven which probably left raven feeling like yang didn't care for her at all and that raven herself was weak.